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WebView CG Notes - 2023-12-15

Slides: https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1zRq1etzB-VJj0c56df-BubGB_w8g3ugx_aRJpQ9IasQ

10:00 - 11:00 UTC Session

Attendees:

  • Ben Wiser
  • François Daoust
  • Niklas Merz
  • Bryan Ellis
  • Mihai Cirlanaru

Notes:

  • Ben reviews the agenda
  • Round of introductions
    • Bryan works on Apache Cordova, several mobile projects that involve code/library such as Flutter or React that may run in WebViews.
    • Niklas works on Apache Cordova too.
    • Ben works in the WebView team at Google. Willing to converge on vision.
    • François part of the W3C team - involved in media activities which is connected to WebView - a lot of media devices have “sort of browsers” so a lot of interest in how we make WebViews a considered first class citizen of the web
    • Mihai: work at Google on WebView team. Worked on Firefox OS some time ago.
  • Where the group got to previously
    • Some work on usage and challenges. Still some todos in the spec. First step when the group started.
    • Led to work on explainers. The explainers part has not gotten far until now, but a good focus for the group.
    • Are explainers about new features or consolidating fragmentation?
      • To some extent, that relates to the existing charter. Current charter is about documentation of challenges. More about consolidation. Looking for common ground for APIs that are specific to implementations but related in scope.
    • [Bryan] There are a lot of policy differences between WebViews
    • More tension on the web side or on the native side?
      • Probably more on the native side. The issues that are brought up are on the native side.
      • Native APIs don’t go through standardization process.
    • In the media world - there are slightly different challenges due to the constraints of media constrained devices
      • Access to the video player on the actual device - fragmentation of APIs and specific to TVs
        • Powerful APIs discussions at TPAC comes to mind
        • There is a lot of W3C history on this (e.g., SysApps Working Group) - the main problems were the security issues - it is always a recurring theme
        • The mini apps working group is looking to this
    • Related security, similar issues in Cordova applications that run in a different context.
      • When does the user know that they’re interacting with the web vs. with a specific context.
      • A topic that seems worthwhile exploring in the group.
      • Android WebView uses Chromium but some quirks are not really of interest to Chromium as a whole. One example is file URLs quirks.
        • Some WebViews treat files differently in practice, which is indeed one source of issues.
  • Time and interval for next meeting
    • Alternating meetings might be the next step
    • Ben Wiser, François Daoust - Any time between the first meeting today and the last meeting
    • Bryan Ellis - 19:00 JST (Same as current meeting time)
    • Niklas: UTC 10:00-19:00, Friday preferred
    • Mihai Cirlanaru: Friday preferred, flexible until 5pm UTC
  • What groups can we reach out to?
  • Charter updates?
  • Slack #

16:00 - 17:00 UTC Session

Attendees:

  • Niklas Merz
  • Max Tsoy (DuckDuckGo)
  • Ben Wiser
  • Brady Duga

Notes:

  • Introductions
    • Ben Wiser - Android WebView provider and co-chair
    • Niklas Merz - Apache cordova and co-chair
    • Max Tsoy - Duck duck go
    • Brady Duga - Been involved in ebooks for a long while
  • Time & interval
    • Alternate between earlier and later time zones
    • Will try stick to the same times as before
    • Brady - Epub tried to alternate
  • Where the group got to previously & and where should be headed
    • [Niklas] Use cases & challenges docs was roughly finished
      • Started focusing on the explainers - maybe this is a natural place to continue
    • [Max] It was eye opening to see the spectrum of problems
      • Not sure if that is the best long term solution
      • Hoping to aim for compatibility in the long term
      • What is WebView in the whole web world?
      • Think about it is even possible to standardize WebViews
      • so, long-term goal should be some kind of standardization across all WebViews
    • [Max] In the near term, would like to carry on with the different threads
      • One challenge in the group is to get more traction from other providers
      • Would be great to get more big stakeholders on board
    • [Max] At the last TPAC - was chatting to the people at MDN and discussed that there was a lot of web compat problems
      • It now has a column for Android WebView
      • would be great to promote more compat documentation across platforms
    • [Ben] Do we see compatibility challenges on the web side or the native side?
      • [Max] It is a mix but the most painful issues are on the native side - it is easier to polyfill a javascript issue than a native compatibility issue
      • [Brady] For books, there is a rendering side, and there is a glue layer
        • The glue layer is written differently on all clients
        • Problems still persist with older web clients
        • It is really hard to get rid of hacks once they are in
  • Homework for the group- review charter
    https://github.com/WebView-CG/charter/blob/main/charter.md
    • Would love to have a deliverable for the web community for WebView
    • Perhaps we could get WebViews on wpt.fyi
    • [Max] Curious if browser vendors are testing wpts against WebView
  • Would love to follow on the categories work stream further
  • [Ben] Are there any pain points anyone is experiencing?
  • Outreach
    • Publishing WG and EPUB CG are good contact points for participants, Brady Duga to reach out
  • Next meeting
    • Find technical discussions (from previous work) to get started