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I am proceeding to modernize this issue. The problem is that when playing as Korea, events fire that cause the country to be puppeted without a war. While arguably Korea would have a hard time surviving such a war as an uncivilized tag, it makes more sense to let events occur in a more engaging way that allows the player to actively take part in the chain of events. Regardless, the role of these events in leading to the First Sino-Japanese War should be kept in mind.
Additionally, during testing I encountered a bug where 85020 repeats with surprising insistency.
The timeline for this is as follows: 85020 "Tonghak Rebellion": when Korea is between 70% and 100% westernized, but not yet westernized, or if the year is on or after 1894, this event is likely to happen and takes Korea out of any sphere that it may be in.
Ideally, the [Donghak Peasant Revolution] should only fire under the right combination of conditions. Arguably, the westernization process is a factor promoting these conditions, and this could be simulated through a threshold in lower class militancy or rebel occupation. Instituting such thresholds should give the player more sense of control over the destiny of the country that they are playing. I suggest attaching the threshold to Taejon province (1636). In the course of normal westernization, I found this province to have an average militancy of 5.8 soon before 85020 triggered, which is high enough to suggest that rebellion could happen.
Arguably the presence of a Rebellion, whether successful or not, could grant a casus belli to Japan. However, 85025, which happens to usually Qing (really to the owner of Peking province), implies that Korea has asked for help. An alternative could be presented in 85020 where a strong Korea thinks that it can put down the rebellion on its own, or a weak one can ask for help. Qing (and potentially Japan as well) could then gain a casus belli to puppet a strong Korea. A weak Korea would ask the Qing for help, leading to the current in-game route.
Whether Korea is a already a puppet of Qing or not should not have a major effect. A Korea who is a puppet is "weak" in reference to the above criteria. An independent Korea could be "strong," but Qing may want to opportunistically invade a Korea that is fighting off a large rebellion.
85026 "$FROMCOUNTRY$ Intervenes in Korea" and 85027 "Japanese Forces Enter Seoul": are the next to happen from the Korean perspective. In its current state, this causes Japan to puppet Korea automatically. It is noteworthy that in-game, it is likely that Korea will have had no interaction with Japan until this time. Ideally, the attempt to puppet Korea should have a precursor. The Tientsin Convention, between Qing and Japan in 1885, could be an appropriate precursor. This assumes a weak Korea, which could only allow itself to be used as a dependent buffer between Qing and Japan.
These events would not unfold in the same way for a strong Korea that had been able to gain independence from Qing. In such a scenario, I suggest that Japan could try to puppet an uncooperative Korea by force, since a defeated Qing would only be a concern and not a controlling factor in a Japan-Korea interaction. This is more in keeping with 85030, which normally fires if Qing refuses to intervene in Korea.
Therefore, I am proposing these major routes for a Sino-Japanese War:
First, a weak Korea follows the current route, where Qing grants the casus belli to Japan for the historical Sino-Japanese War.
Second, a strong Korea would grant a casus belli to Japan if it does not agree to being puppeted.
If the strong Korea does agree to being puppeted, or if Japan wins the war to puppet Korea, then Japan grants the casus belli to Qing for the alternative Sino-Japanese War.
This suggestion is intended to give principally the player a stronger option in controlling Korea's destiny, but it can also give the ai the possibility to trigger these events with some variation.
Considering whether player-controlled Korea is too strong with this change:
This could be argued, although some (possibly most or all) historians suggest that military vulnerability of the Kingdom of Joseon was a major or necessary factor leading to the Sino-Japanese War. If it had been able to take care of its own rebellion, it would not have asked the Qing for help. The possibility of a Japanese attack on Korea seems much more likely in that event, which is covered in the modified option. Additionally, I do not remove Korea from its sphere in the strong-Korea option, because I do not see how this type of international outrage would have happened.
The text was updated successfully, but these errors were encountered:
rogerburks
changed the title
Korea puppetry when Korea is not already a puppet
Korean puppetry tied to the Sino-Japanese War, player protection
Feb 14, 2022
I am proceeding to modernize this issue. The problem is that when playing as Korea, events fire that cause the country to be puppeted without a war. While arguably Korea would have a hard time surviving such a war as an uncivilized tag, it makes more sense to let events occur in a more engaging way that allows the player to actively take part in the chain of events. Regardless, the role of these events in leading to the First Sino-Japanese War should be kept in mind.
Additionally, during testing I encountered a bug where
85020
repeats with surprising insistency.The timeline for this is as follows:
85020
"Tonghak Rebellion": when Korea is between 70% and 100% westernized, but not yet westernized, or if the year is on or after 1894, this event is likely to happen and takes Korea out of any sphere that it may be in.Ideally, the [Donghak Peasant Revolution] should only fire under the right combination of conditions. Arguably, the westernization process is a factor promoting these conditions, and this could be simulated through a threshold in lower class militancy or rebel occupation. Instituting such thresholds should give the player more sense of control over the destiny of the country that they are playing. I suggest attaching the threshold to Taejon province (
1636
). In the course of normal westernization, I found this province to have an average militancy of 5.8 soon before85020
triggered, which is high enough to suggest that rebellion could happen.Arguably the presence of a Rebellion, whether successful or not, could grant a casus belli to Japan. However,
85025
, which happens to usually Qing (really to the owner of Peking province), implies that Korea has asked for help. An alternative could be presented in85020
where a strong Korea thinks that it can put down the rebellion on its own, or a weak one can ask for help. Qing (and potentially Japan as well) could then gain a casus belli to puppet a strong Korea. A weak Korea would ask the Qing for help, leading to the current in-game route.Whether Korea is a already a puppet of Qing or not should not have a major effect. A Korea who is a puppet is "weak" in reference to the above criteria. An independent Korea could be "strong," but Qing may want to opportunistically invade a Korea that is fighting off a large rebellion.
85026
"$FROMCOUNTRY$ Intervenes in Korea" and85027
"Japanese Forces Enter Seoul": are the next to happen from the Korean perspective. In its current state, this causes Japan to puppet Korea automatically. It is noteworthy that in-game, it is likely that Korea will have had no interaction with Japan until this time. Ideally, the attempt to puppet Korea should have a precursor. The Tientsin Convention, between Qing and Japan in 1885, could be an appropriate precursor. This assumes a weak Korea, which could only allow itself to be used as a dependent buffer between Qing and Japan.These events would not unfold in the same way for a strong Korea that had been able to gain independence from Qing. In such a scenario, I suggest that Japan could try to puppet an uncooperative Korea by force, since a defeated Qing would only be a concern and not a controlling factor in a Japan-Korea interaction. This is more in keeping with
85030
, which normally fires if Qing refuses to intervene in Korea.Therefore, I am proposing these major routes for a Sino-Japanese War:
This suggestion is intended to give principally the player a stronger option in controlling Korea's destiny, but it can also give the ai the possibility to trigger these events with some variation.
This could be argued, although some (possibly most or all) historians suggest that military vulnerability of the Kingdom of Joseon was a major or necessary factor leading to the Sino-Japanese War. If it had been able to take care of its own rebellion, it would not have asked the Qing for help. The possibility of a Japanese attack on Korea seems much more likely in that event, which is covered in the modified option. Additionally, I do not remove Korea from its sphere in the strong-Korea option, because I do not see how this type of international outrage would have happened.
The text was updated successfully, but these errors were encountered: