Change UNIR to operator

[PedroMTG13]

Hey,

I think we should change the tags from UNIR from network to operator.

network=UNIR
network:wikidata=Q124098736
highway=bus_stop

In my understanding, in Porto's Metropolitan Area there is only one network (Andante). Andante is the ticketing network that all forms of transport share (trains, metro, trams, buses, suburban buses, etc).
And thus, UNIR is one of the bus operator in the Porto Areas, mainly to suburban municipalities.
All these forms of transport share the same ticketing scheme doesnt matter if thet are own public or private, there are no private ticket networks (since december at least).

All forms of public transport in Porto should share the same network tags (from Andante), and then change to the different operators (STCP - BUS, UNIR - Suburban bus, MdP - Metro, STCP - tram).

This would be so much quicker if the suggestion made to OSM were in put UNIR only as Operator, and not Network as is today.. And maybe put right then Andante as the Network.

Thanks.

[Snowysauce]

In #9342, Andante was made a selectable network by way of adding a Wikidata QID to its entry. Since the bus portion of the network has various operators, as you mentioned here, the operator tags were omitted. It sounds like you're suggesting that we create presets for the network with each of the bus operators attached (e.g., network=Andante and operator=UNIR, network=Andante and operator=STCP, etc.); however, that may not be easily doable.

While Andante can have multiple entries in a category file with the same network and network:wikidata values, each of the entries need to have unique locationSets. Otherwise, our build script will give the entries the same internal ID and the script will terminate with an error. If the operating areas of the various operators overlap, that likely renders this option unworkable.

If we omit the tags for Andante, the NSI does not (to my knowledge) have the capability of storing presets solely for transit network operators. Even if we did, these presets probably wouldn't be automatically presented in some OSM editors (most notably iD) because the network preset (in this case Andante) would likely take priority. (Please see our Technical Details wiki page for more details on why.)

What this all means is that if the operating areas of UNIR and STCP are intertwined, our options are probably limited to completely removing the entry for UNIR from the NSI.

[bhousel]

A “network” in OSM (or Wikidata) is not a fare zone or a ticketing system. Maybe that’s the source of the confusion?

We’ve had a few situations before where people ask us to change the “network” to be “a bunch of different networks that all use the same tickets” and this is not how most people want the tags to be used.

[PedroMTG13]

As mention by @Snowysauce I can understand with his point and I would agree that is better to have it separated. But the preset to UNIR is to always change to Operator (NOT network).

For UNIR - https://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/14975172#map=13/41.21043/-8.68315
network=Andante
network:wikidata=Q4753591
operator=UNIR
operator:wikidata=Q124098736

For STCP - https://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/13493038#map=15/41.17223/-8.65105
network=Andante
network:wikidata=Q4753591
operator=STCP
operator:wikidata=Q366110

Maré de Matosinhos - https://www.openstreetmap.org/node/2255905934#map=15/41.19089/-8.65251
For example was the predecessor to UNIR. There are many other operators that were extinguish.
For Maré the easier it to go to OverpassTurbo and edit all ocorrences, but that takes some time.

@bhousel For me a network is a net of points, ways and areas that share something, Can be national school's network, churches, museums, healthcare units and defence infrastuture. In transportation, ticketing and fares are a important and common 'something...
In Porto there is Andante, like Oyster in London or other systems. And is even more important due to the lack of barriers in metros and trains (there is a honor system). All the forms of transportation to OPERATE in Porto have to use Andante