Switch gender in game

[Fris0uman]

Summary

Features "Switch gender in game"

Purpose of change

Add an option to switch gender at any time in game

Describe the solution

Pressing y in the @ menu switches the gender

Describe alternatives you've considered

Testing

2021-08-25.22-20-34.mp4

Additional context

[Little-119]

One of the many abilities granted by blob infection: instant HRT

[actual-nh]

This should be locked behind an autodoc procedure or debug option, doesn't seem right to have this kind of power available by default

How does this qualify as power when the only difference it makes is in dialogue and what sprite is used? (And allowing people to try out different sprites is one reason for it, actually.)

[Optimism333]

This should be locked behind an autodoc procedure or debug option, doesn't seem right to have this kind of power available by default

How does this qualify as power when the only difference it makes is in dialogue and what sprite is used? (And allowing people to try out different sprites is one reason for it, actually.)

But people are allowed to try different sprites. There's the initial character creation, different equipment, getting a haircut from the refugee center, etc.

If the argument is players might want to change their character's gender mid-game for whatever reason (appearance or dialogue, as you pointed out), making it a debug menu option should suffice.

[actual-nh]

If the argument is players might want to change their character's gender mid-game for whatever reason (appearance or dialogue, as you pointed out), making it a debug menu option should suffice.

This is also for RP purposes, and quite a lot of people feel like getting into the game is disrupted by bringing up the debug menu with all its, hrm, temptations.

[Optimism333]

Then by having it as an autodoc operation would be a legitimate and logical way of changing gender in the middle of a playthrough

I guess an argument could be made for this, but as @actual-nh pointed out, the impact of gender is so minimal that having an autodoc surgery for that sole purpose is... odd. Unless it's going to work like the splinting of broken limbs and be an instant operation. Or unless gender as a mechanic is going to have more of an impact on the game.

I still don't see the argument for why this needs to be a game mechanic beyond a debug menu option. Subjectively one could say the debug menu brings the player out of the game, I would just counter by saying another player could say the same about a feature enabled by default that allows you to change your character's gender at will. That really depends on the player's view, I guess.

After thinking about this a bit more, I think I fall more into the latter camp. I don't see this adding anything to player choice mechanically that isn't available at the beginning of the game, and I definitely don't think it adds anything to rp immersion unless gender reassignment surgery is going to be added (which I don't think is worth having an autodoc surgery for). So thumbs down from me unless it's intended to be an addition to the debug menu.

[actual-nh]

I suggest looking up the concept of "gender fluidity" and someone being "genderfluid".

[Aerin-of-the-Toast]

Switching genders mid-game doesn't offer any mechanical benefit in-game, so there's no reason to make it a cheat or trait, and making genderfluidity a mutation just has... weird implications. It's basically just a way to better roleplay your character better. Also, there seems to be some confusion regarding "gender" and "sex." The option's presumably only changing your gender (so switching your identity, presentation, pronouns, etc.) and not immediately giving you instant GCS.
Furthermore, genderfluidity is relevant to the game, since roleplaying is a part of the game, and someone might be wanting to roleplay a genderfluid person (or a genderfluid person roleplaying themselves.)
Thirdly it's an inconsequential toggle that you never have to use if you don't want it, there's really no need to sequester it away in the debug menu.

[Saicchi]

Switching genders mid-game doesn't offer any mechanical benefit in-game,

Then should an option to change the name be added too ( as in moved from the debug menu into the status screen menu)? As far as I know it's also only used during NPC dialogue.

[eltank]

Then should an option to change the name be added too ( as in moved from the debug menu into the status screen menu)? As far as I know it's also only used during NPC dialogue.

std::string PATH_INFO::player_base_save_path()
{
    return PATH_INFO::world_base_save_path() + "/" + base64_encode( get_player_character().name );
}

[Saicchi]

Hmm. That could be changed to allow the player to change their name while keeping the same save by adding a variable and a method to separate save file name and display name.

[Optimism333]

Switching genders mid-game doesn't offer any mechanical benefit in-game, so there's no reason to make it a cheat or trait, and making genderfluidity a mutation just has... weird implications. It's basically just a way to better roleplay your character better. Also, there seems to be some confusion regarding "gender" and "sex." The option's presumably only changing your gender (so switching your identity, presentation, pronouns, etc.) and not immediately giving you instant GCS.

The game doesn't make a serious effort to differentiate gender and biological sex (probably because the system dedicated to it is very simple and binary), so neither have I. It doesn't seem incorrect to assume that they're meant to be synonymous within the game.

If someone can point to a snippet of code or a feature in the game that suggests otherwise, please correct me.

[actual-nh]

I suggest looking up the concept of "gender fluidity" and someone being "genderfluid".

I'd rather keep the discussion about this pr centered on the game at hand and any mechanics in question.

Given that another reason is to be welcoming, that would be a tad bit difficult.

[actual-nh]

I still don't see the argument for why this needs to be a game mechanic beyond a debug menu option. Subjectively one could say the debug menu brings the player out of the game, I would just counter by saying another player could say the same about a feature enabled by default that allows you to change your character's gender at will. That really depends on the player's view, I guess.

Exactly why should the second player's point of view (that it is intrusive to have the option be present) be the one that is more of concern?

[Mom-Bun]

We've been discussing this as an idea for a little bit now because the initial starting option of a binary selection for gender that is permanent for awhile is... problematic because gender in game isn't sex, its your gender and having that as a permanent option is strange.

Overall we will eventually want nonbinary inclusion in the game as well, but this option is a very good first step, so big thanks to Fris0uman for adding it!

As for adding it as a debug option, no thanks, the idea IMO was to make this easily accessible so its obvious that the gender selection in game is well... your gender so locking it behind debug makes it feel hack-y when it shouldn't be.

[actual-nh]

Switching genders mid-game doesn't offer any mechanical benefit in-game,

Quite.

so there's no reason to make it a cheat or trait,

Unless being able to choose a character's gender at the start of the game should be a trait? EDIT: To be clear, I am not advocating this; it would certainly be disruptive to RP while having no more arguments in favor of it than this gender selection trait does.

and making genderfluidity a mutation just has... weird implications.

That's putting it mildly.

[akrieger]

It doesn't seem incorrect to assume that they're meant to be synonymous within the game.

If someone can point to a snippet of code or a feature in the game that suggests otherwise, please correct me.

This PR is what you are looking for.

[Aerin-of-the-Toast]

I don't see why it has to be debug. I can present masculine today and feminine tomorrow without rewriting the laws of reality.

[wapcaplet]

To my knowledge, gender has no in-game effect except how your character looks, so even purely from a gameplay perspective, there’s no reason to hide it behind a debug menu, mutation/trait, or autodoc procedure (which implies sex change, not the same thing).

This is a good change, and long overdue imho.

[kevingranade]

To reiterate a very basic concept that some people seem to be missing, DDA does not have a concept of biological sex, it simply does not exist in the context of the game. As such this toggle is only adjusting the gender the player presents themselves as, and there is no rationale I can even concieve of for limiting the player's ability to change that at will.

[actual-nh]

Wouldn't changing genders on command give players an advantage at persuading NPCs?

You're assuming there are NPCs that care in terms of influencing them.

[Mom-Bun]

Wouldn't changing genders on command give players an advantage at persuading NPCs?

AFAIK there is no code governing difference in genders beyond a few lines of dialogue, and that is it.

[yoinky-sploinky-the-2nd]

gender has no effect thats even worth changing it mid game, unnceccecary overall

[actual-nh]

gender has no effect thats even worth changing it mid game, unnceccecary overall

Roleplaying. (By that logic, why bother having an option to set it non-randomly at the start of the game?)

[yoinky-sploinky-the-2nd]

you can roleplay by choosing the gender of choice at the very beginning, or just pretending it changed for example

[actual-nh]

you can roleplay by choosing the gender of choice at the very beginning, or just pretending it changed for example

You are assuming everyone roleplays the same way you might.

[yoinky-sploinky-the-2nd]

tbf iif you want this feature that much never too late to learn coding and make it a mod

[Saicchi]

tbf iif you want this feature that much never too late to learn coding and make it a mod

I don't think this is moddable yet. Maybe soonTM

[actual-nh]

LGTM is having problems building master, I think - same thing happened on #50785. EDIT: Ah; eltank (thanks!) figured out it's timeouts (build taking way too long).

[Entity-y]

Why would someone report and hide my posts for violating the code of conduct, when they were clearly related to the topic at hand?

The suppression of my comments that you may not agree with is abusing this sites report function and possibly an abuse of the privileges granted on this site. If my comments were off topic then wouldn't the other comments that counter what I have to say also be off topic? Seems heavily one-sided and unjustified.

[I-am-Erk]

To whoever suggested we should also allow changing of names in the same dialogue: yeah, totally. I'd suggest it should wait until we differentiate between the different types of name, so you can set your nickname independently of other names, but we could do it right now as well.

Later we should also be able to set our pronouns in the same menu

Edit to share a good comparison from Sacchi: this is just as mechanically relevant as choosing the cosmetic form of a car panel, which we also allow without having to spend resources of any sort.

[hawkwinghasseler]

I agree with those saying changing gender should be in done debug, not character menu. There are plenty of similar edits that can only be made from debug, such as changing your hair color and length. It is yet another button that most players will never (intentionally) touch during their playthrough. Changing this attribute of a character is also something that you may, for RP reasons, want to do to other characters. It being an option in the character menu doesn't allow for that.

[I-am-Erk]

It's fine that most players won't intentionally use this feature: it's four lines of code. However changing gender expression is not some magic procedure, and doesn't need to be done through debug. This is now decided.

[Winterous]

Interesting notion.
Should probably have a prompt to "reconfigure identity" including name, gender, and any other relevant details.
Also a little message saying "You take a moment to rearrange your thoughts" would be funny.

[I-am-Erk]

Please stop using a closed and resolved PR to complain about your inability to understand gender. Even if one of you had a relevant point, it would remain off topic as a closed PR is never the appropriate place to complain about a feature.