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Orange Pi Zero 2 crashes when doing the benchmark test #22
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Hey munecito, That is a very strange issue and I've never heard of it before (except for on Pi using NVMe with too little power). The weird thing about yours is it sounds like it's the identification tests that are freezing and NOT the actual benchmark which is where we typically expect things to freeze if there is power issues. I don't think that I have a successful test on the Zero 2 so it's possible there's some kind of bug / problem for sure. I do have an idea of how to try to narrow it down if you are willing to indulge / try a few things. This is the code in question:
The problem must be in this section. If you pretty much paste those lines one at a time we should be able to find exactly what is going wrong / locking it up. After this there is an additional message you would be seeing if it got that far where it begins the actual benchmark. If you can find out which line is crashing the system we should be able to learn more / potentially even fix it. Thanks! |
Hello. Those lines run fine on their on. but if I run the test as per your automated script it does stop at the same time each time and the orange pi crashes. I am going to try to run it on a fresh install of armbian to see if that does the trick. Maybe it is Armbian that makes it crash, or maybe is the pihole that runs on the same SBC. Funnily enough the reported temperature does not go past 53C. Here is the transcript of what happens until the point it freezes.
Let me try on a fresh install and report back |
No dice. Fresh install gets just to the same point as with pihole installed. I don't know how else I can help you but do let me know and I will give it a go. |
Hello, Thanks a ton for your investigation. Supporting other boards is brand new and you're the first person I've heard really giving it a go but it's very new and hasn't had it for years and years (although many people took it anyway). I've added some additional debug messages to the script to try and pinpoint what is going wrong here. There is some additional code that runs after what I sent you to try and the problem must be after that. I added several messages to tell us which "track" it's taking here. After the code I sent you is the following:
This had no output logging indicating that the other hardware tests finished so I added that in and a few other messages as well. The only possibility I'm thinking is if for some reason accessing those /sys/block registers is taking down the system. Definitely possible but not something I've seen / heard of before. There were a couple of other specific possibilities that could have ran some more code before any output and all of those have messages now indicating that's where it is currently at. Would you be willing to run it again? I still expect the problem to happen but I'm expecting different output this time. I didn't include this last time because I don't see anything in there that would explain it off the top of my head and figured for sure that one of those tests must have been triggering it. Thanks! |
I tried 3 different things here: First I ran the script as per normal. I don't know if having a recurrent DNS didn't update the script but the results were the same as before: Running the script
If I Run just the last part of the code that was sent if just hangs and I need to CTRL C to break it and be able to go back to the command line:
Then if I copy the whole content oh Storage.ch and run it from the command line it gets a bit further but still freezes. I think it may be related to getting the card information. If I copy the whole content of the script:
Interestingly If I break the card information code in parts this happens:
So once again that just hangs there but I am able to CTRL C to break from it. If I run the second part of the set of instructions I get this:
So I think it may be something in the first part of that code that does not work well with either the Orange Pi Zero 2 or Armbian. By the way. Below is the System info I get when I log into Armbian pihole@192.168.1.3's password: / _ | _ () |__ /__ _ __ | Welcome to Armbian 22.02.1 with Linux 4.9.255-sun50iw9 System load: 27% Up time: 8 min [ General system configuration (beta): armbian-config ] Please let me know if I can be of any more help. I don't mind running the program for you to test, but if it is too difficult and it is not worth the time invested to try to make it run it is fine. I was just curious about the performance of the cards in the OPZ2 compared to the RasPi4B and RasPi400. I mean the Orange is just being used for a pihole so not really that demanding. Thank you. |
Great finds! It looks like it's getting stuck to me. That's hugely important that you can Ctrl+C it. It means the device isn't actually locked up. It's waiting for something. I have a theory. I wonder if it's this line:
The reason I'm thinking of this is that xxd -r may be waiting for piped input but if there's none coming maybe it's getting stuck. I think this is definitely worth investigating here. I think we're getting close. I'm guessing that for every one person like you that takes the benchmark there is at least 10 that will try to take it and have a problem and I'll never find out about it. Who knows how many other people have already dealt with this before over the years and never said anything. Can you try running it again here? The Vendor field is no longer used so I'm commenting it out here and let's see if it's xxd that is trapping it! |
I can't ctrl C it if I'm running the whole script. For some reason if I do it that way it actually freezes and I lose all the internet connectivity (pihole is a DHCP and recursive DNS server) I'll run it again and report back. |
If I run only that previous line it does not give me any error. But if I run the whole script it freezes. Once again I can't break out of it when that happens and it is only after I power back on that it comes out of the loop:
For some reason it does not pass the additional hardware identification tests again. Earlier it did. I may have something to do with running the other parts of the code on their own?
|
Very interesting. When you are running the lines individually it doesn't look like the variables are populated. For example You could try pasting the entire contents of the script right on the shell. So far everything has ran properly when you tried it directly. If you paste the entire script in all of those variable should be populated. Theoretically it would stop at exactly the same place because there is some kind of really really weird problem going on here. It doesn't look like it's making it through the tests here but pasting that section on the command line should be the same. My guess is that maybe it's freezing on udevadm? What happens if you run:
udevadm crashing things is a thing apparently. It does try to communicate directly with the drive. If there's some kind of driver or firmware bug on this board this could explain it. This would probably kill it:
I think it has to be one of the tests here that uses either $BootDrive or $BootDriveSuffix. When you ran your test before those weren't populated and it's not making it past the testing section. That narrows it down to only a few options at least. It leaves udevadm, test_nvme and test_smartctl as well as capacity. One of those is locking up this system for some reason here! Are there any firmware updates available for these boards? This is something I would expect something like a firmware update to fix. |
Ok If I run udevadm it does hang up but does not freeze the Orange. So I seem to be able to CTRL C out and I keep internet conectivity It just stays on the blank line and does not move PS C:\Users\Will> ssh pihole@192.168.1.3 / _ | _ () |__ /__ _ __ | Welcome to Armbian 22.02.1 with Linux 4.9.255-sun50iw9 System load: 28% Up time: 17 min Local users: 2 Last login: Thu May 12 01:39:48 2022 from 192.168.1.6 Running the big chunk of code freezes it again. I am going to try to run it line by line. This is as far as I got before every line started hanging. The board froze but I did not see when. I am going to run again from the last one that froze before every when bad. The ones with the Ctrl C are the ones that seemed to get hung. But after coming out of them I was able to continue.
|
Excellent. I started investigating freezes like this when running udevadm and found these: https://forums.raspberrypi.com/viewtopic.php?t=93753 That was all I found on the entire internet. Only for Raspberry Pi and only using ancient kernels (like 3.X.X kernels). I was not able to find an example of this happening within the past 5+ years or so. Is that the era this Orange Pi is from? Is it running a 3.X.X kernel? I have a lot of boards from this era too like the Tinker Board that I could imagine if it was using the stock eMMC image would be running a kernel this old and potentially do this. Does this happen to be the official image for PiHole or did you install PiHole on a normal OS install? Or is this a fully up to date image from http://www.orangepi.org/downloadresources/? If it's the main PiHole image I wonder if this would happen using a different OS but I hate to ask you to go that far (unless you have a bunch of extra SD cards around and it's not something that will take you very long). |
Hello James. I am not so sure about the answers as I am quite new to the world of SBC and the Orange pi was bought because prices and availability for RasPi are ridiculous. So I am going to answer to the best of my knowledge. The Orange Pi Zero 2 information can be found at: http://www.orangepi.org/Orange%20Pi%20Zero2/
I have installed Armbian official. The Software offered by the makers of Orange pi is quite old (2020) The Armbian version I installed is Armbian 22.02 Bullseye That can be found here: https://www.armbian.com/orange-pi-zero-2/ In the Pihole forums I read that it was best not to use the one from the link you posted as it was too out of date.
I installed Pihole over Armbian using the official installation code
I have also tried your Benchmark test on a clean Armbian install with no pihole. I can probably try a different OS on a different SD card. But I don't know what other distros can be run in the Orange Pi. Now. Regarding the running of the code line by line, I did a few more tests. What I found is that the lines getting hung were related to a previous line of code. If I omit:
Then I can run the rest of the code without crashing. But If I include that line, then I get other lines failing at random until the whole OPZ2 freezes.
So I suppose you are correct in saying that udevadm may have something to do with this issue. I am going to go to bed now (late in Australia) and I will continue testing whatever you deem convenient tomorrow. Thanks. |
Perfect, we've pretty much fully diagnosed this now. Let's move to the fixing stage! I was just reading the udevadm documentation and found something that may be able to help:
Waiting forever. That is exactly what it's doing. Okay, can you try this command:
If I got this right it should wait 15 seconds and fail (but continue the rest of the test). It should then continue normally if udevadm freezes like this. Who knows how many other devices this may help as well! I've uploaded these changes in the script to try at your convenience. Thanks a ton for this. I am certain this must happen on some other devices and it's why this flag exists. This should make the test a lot more robust if it indeed fixes it for you! This is also a model I don't have a test for yet. I'm going to try to preload it in there and if it actually shows up live on the site when you take the test then that means I got the board put in there correctly! |
Hello again James. You caught me with that answer just before I turned my computer off. I tried that line on its own, and added to the partial set of instructions. On its own it runs with no error but if it is part of the whole set of instructions it freezes the system pretty much automatically so it is unable to continue after the set amount of time. I gave it a couple of minutes each time but as soon as it it run. The system goes out of line and becomes unresponsive so a hard reset is needed every time.
It also hungs on the same spot if I run the sudo curl https://raw.githubusercontent.com/TheRemote/PiBenchmarks/master/Storage.sh | sudo bash I am going to try now copying the whole script in the terminal. Below is what happens when I try to run the contents of Storage.sh
That is as far as it gets and the whole system pretty much hangs there with no chance of recovering. I gave it about 10 minutes last time to see if it came back but nothing happened. |
James. Would it be helpful if I was to contribute with your project by donating one of these orange pi boards? I just feel that I may be missing on passing some critical information and maybe having one for you to tinker with may help more than me trying to explain what happens each time. It is not that it bothers me to keep trying, it is the actual concern that I may be missing on passing some information that is relevant to the case. I will be learning a bit of Phyton soon on a short course offered by a Technical college as part of a government initiative to give people new on demand skills post COVID. So hopefully I can be more useful soon enough. |
Ah hah! Now it's freezing on lshw it looks like. I may just use the generic Linux timeout command and do something similar for this one. This one seems like a "hard" freeze here since you can't Ctrl+C out of it. I wonder why both methods are triggering the freeze. I'd definitely graciously accept the boards as I don't have any Orange Pi ones. Normally I just buy these things but right now we are in a Raspberry Pi shortage where they're being scalped for $200 on Amazon, cryptocurrency is all crashed out and IT across the board is in a major pullback so I don't have much cashflow at the moment to drop on boards for testing. That is exciting that you're getting into some programming/coding! I use Python quite a bit even though I don't have any repositories for it at the moment (I'm trying to start publishing more of the stuff I've already done and use personally). You've been incredibly helpful and we've already fixed one potential freeze I wasn't aware of. Now for the lshw one. What happens if you run lshw in the console? I am wondering if it is going to freeze on "PCI (sysfs)". I'm wondering because of this thread. The output of the lshw isn't on the screen since it's being piped into that variable (to be submitted with the benchmark). If you type it in the console we should be able to find out exactly what it's freezing on. Some more references to this issue: These are from all over the place as far as a timeline. The theme I seem to keep running into is it's some kind of kernel bug. Is this for sure completely up to date with a Before we go too far with that let's look at the exact output you're getting from lshw before the freeze occurs if you just type: The point where it freezes seems to tell us a lot from what I'm finding about related issues. Thanks again! |
James. I'm sending you an email to your Gmail account that is linked to PayPal. |
No freezing running lshw root@orangepizero2:/home/pihole# lshw |
That is very puzzling! It definitely seemed to be freezing on the lshw test. Does it still stop there if you run it the other way? Can you give the results of https://forum.armbian.com/topic/12577-orange-pi-zero-plus2-h5-wifi-unstable/ I'm seeing a massive amount of complaints of the old drivers / kernel on the armbian forums so we definitely want to make sure yours is up to date. The older ones seem like they're an absolute mess and we can pretty much personally attest that the currently installed kernel can't handle a hdparm or a lshw (reliably) which are core system utilities basically. Is this running bullseye? It looks extremely annoying to upgrade the kernel on armbian and looks like it requires using armbian-config to upgrade it. I wanted to mention this because it looks like if you have done the steps to properly upgrade this you will know it as they aren't easy or intuitive. Because of this and how many driver / firmware related issues I'm seeing related to the Orange Pi Zero 2 and the difficulty of upgrading unless this is a recent install I'm guessing it's going to be a 4.X kernel. It's very possible all of these issues are completely fixed but that it may take reimaging with the latest image or doing some tricky upgrades. Let's grab the kernel config with uname -a as it's honestly so bad (way beyond anything to do with the script) that I feel like there has to be some sort of older kernel going on potentially! This seems to be extremely common due to the higher difficulty of upgrading although both Ubuntu and Raspberry Pi OS have their own quirks like this too when you want to jump releases. Since you are planning on potentially donating one of these boards you can also feel free to leave it to me as I love playing with this stuff but if we're lucky one key upgrade might solve this! |
As far as I can see in the Armbian page the kernel used in the version for the orange pi zero 2 is 4.9.y They offer two other variants with newer kernels but I am really not sure if they are better or not. One of a version of Arbian Focal with kernel 5.16.y and the other one is a Jammy(autobuild) with kernel 5.17.5 Focal | | | | | stable | 5.16.y | SHA | ASC | 287M | Mar 7, 2022 Both are at the bottom of the page: https://www.armbian.com/orange-pi-zero-2/#kernels-archive-all I am using the stable bullseye offered at the top with 4.9.y. The results of uname are below:
Thank you James. |
Ahh, perfect, that helps a lot! So I can definitely explain their options here. They have two flavors. One is Debian-based (Bullseye right now) and the other one is Ubuntu based (Focal). Focal is Ubuntu 20.04 which is the current LTS release. Kernel 5.16 would probably be a good choice to try to see which of these issues may be resolved. Bullseye is the current Debian release and Jammy is the next one. The images page for Jammy says it's a rolling release which are usually less stable. It looks like to me that the Focal one is the most stable (and according to them as well) besides Bullseye but we know Bullseye still has that really old kernel. That's probably why Bullseye is listed first or as the most "stable" but just like long term support versions on other distros/flavors that can sometimes mean really old kernels that may not get fixes backported to the old versions for some of these hardware problems. http://www.orangepi.org/orangepibbsen/forum.php?mod=viewthread&tid=5905 That last one is an example of .dtb issues on the Pi Zero 2 that switching between the Ubuntu and Debian flavors actually seemed to impact the behavior. I also found this interesting article: https://medium.com/nerd-for-tech/fixing-a-defective-orange-pi-r1-a95ba7901fcf In that case it was actually a hardware error causing the kernel to crash. He resoldered a part that came loose and then it stopped crashing. I checked my jamesachambers.com server running Ubuntu 20.04 (LTS, nothing new or special) to see it's kernel:
on my Ubuntu 22.04 desktop it's:
and finally I checked my Raspberry Pi running normal Raspberry Pi OS (notorious for being behind and outdated):
The 4.X kernel branch strikes me as ancient and I couldn't find any device I had running anything like that (except for vendor IoT devices that I'm probably not even supposed to know how to get in). It strikes me as you have nothing to lose here. The kernel definitely seems to have major issues with that board and I wasn't able to find any examples of it ever making it worse from upgrading (it only seemed to help). I'm guessing most of the "stable" part for that kernel has to do more with software and not hardware/drivers. A lot of software packages don't like kernel jumps very much and it's probably for them that they have this as a recommendation but for a PiHole I would go for the best hardware compatibility with a newer kernel. Maybe Jammy is fine too though. It's the "rolling" userspace. Are you using the Bullseye one for any specific reason or does it not really matter and that is just the one you picked originally? Either route would get a much newer kernel and I'd be very curious to see what kind of impacts it has on this board for sure! |
In not running bullseye because of any specific needs. I just saw it was a stable version and went with it. I'm going to backup my pihole configuration and install the Ubuntu one to run the benchmark again. There's nothing running the that can't be redeployedb within a couple of hours. |
I tried to install Bullseye and Focal from the official Armbian page and they both fail to even start. Seraching online I found a Facebook post from Orange pi themselves with new releases for the Zero 2 in both Debian and Ubuntu with kernel 5.16 and 5.13 respectively. They were released two days ago. https://www.facebook.com/groups/1620838934806045/permalink/3129296583960265/ I am currently downloading them and will report back. The direct links to a google drive of those downloads are: |
I think it was the old Kernel giving us all those headaches!!! https://pibenchmarks.com/benchmark/59644 At the end of the test I got a lot of garbled test. I will now flash ubuntu to test again and may even test with desktop versions. I must admit that the SD reader in the Orange Pi is quite disappointing compared to the Raspberry pi 4 and 400. For some reason the board also doesn't like armbian versions of Focal. It is a shame as I really liked the So I think you can close this issue James. Thank you. |
Hey munecito, Great outcome! I'm glad we were able to narrow things down. This is one of the tougher ones I've done in a while but I really want to dive into these new boards. I'm sure there are hundreds if not thousands of other boards out there I've never heard of. I learned a lot for sure. I totally understand about the SD reader being a slight disappointment. That is a very nice SD card you have in it (the score is off by about 43%). I had a feeling that this might bear some fruit because working with the Pi for probably almost a decade now I've seen how long the hardware fixes for the Pi take to get into the modern kernel versions. It's sometimes years before they make it from being finished/fixed to actually available in the public repositories (this has got better in the past year or two but traditionally this was a problem). Given this background I think there was an excellent reason to expect that a lot of those changes will never be backported to the older kernel for something like Orange Pi (although I was impressed with their site and resources they are nowhere near the size of Raspberry Pi at this point and nobody is really even close at the moment). I think you're definitely on the right track to improve your experience on these boards (no matter what they turn out to be capable of performance wise). I imagine it's possible to get those issues fixed on armbian by somehow getting the newer kernel working on it. I got the preload wrong on your board. If you refresh your benchmark I fixed it now (I had it as Zero 2 and it came through as Zero2 without the space). There is also a board category (with a total of 1 benchmark) here: https://pibenchmarks.com/board/OrangePi_Zero2 Thank you for your extremely comprehensive investigation and time on this! I definitely enjoyed it and learned a lot. I definitely know how to help people with issues like this in the future (and how to investigate the causes a little better). This was kind of a trial run for diagnosing other boards that I'm not as familiar with and don't even have in some cases. Take care! |
No worries. I'm trying now the Ubuntu image. Then I'll try the desktop versions as the Ubuntu is something different again. Then I'll make up my mind about what distro to use. Thank you for all your help. |
Hello again!
I hope you're doing well. I wanted to email you as I did end up checking
out the Pi Zero 2 board and wrote a review. I did mention you in the
review and wanted to make sure you were okay with this before I published.
I mainly referenced our GitHub conversation and what we learned about the
newer kernel greatly helping with the hardware support in the board (and
letting it successfully complete a benchmark for the first time). Here's a
draft of what I'm writing:
[image: Orange Pi Zero 2 - Included Case]Orange Pi Zero 2 - Included Case
Recently for my storage benchmarking site I had a GitHub issue opened about
the Orange Pi Zero 2 <#22>
not being able to complete the storage benchmark successfully. We were able
to get the board going after a lot of troubleshooting but it was pretty
difficult to troubleshoot as I had never had one of these boards before.
Until now! I recently received my first and only ever hardware donation to
the site from *munecito <https://github.com/munecito>* who graciously
donated one of these boards to help improve the benchmark (it did not only
for SBCs but it now supports PCs as well). Thank you munecito!
I was very interested in how this board compares to the Raspberry Pi
experience and ecosystem because we are having a massive Raspberry Pi
shortage
<https://jamesachambers.com/raspberry-pi-shortage-sources-strategies/>
right now and that is exactly what we are going to do. I also have some
general tips for getting the most out of the Orange Pi based on our
troubleshooting experience. Let's proceed!
Hardware Used
[image: Orange Pi Zero 2]Orange Pi Zero 2
The Raspberry Pi Zero W is the wireless-capable version of the Pi Zero. It
has a much smaller form factor than a full size Pi making it ideal for use
in projects that benefit from a very small form factor while having a fully
capable Linux PC. It costs about the same as the original Raspberry Pi used
to long ago (~$35 give or take).
Links: Amazon.com <https://amzn.to/3PreJkA>, AliExpress.com
<https://s.click.aliexpress.com/e/_DE26JGP>, Amazon.ca
<https://amzn.to/3ANEnw6>, Amazon.co.jp <https://amzn.to/3aC7yas>,
Amazon.co.uk <https://amzn.to/3IyTfjJ>, Amazon.de <https://amzn.to/3cdPWCb>,
Amazon.es <https://amzn.to/3aBIGjf>, Amazon.fr <https://amzn.to/3O6I16W>,
Amazon.it <https://amzn.to/3Pb1Nj9>, Amazon.nl <https://amzn.to/3Pr7pWo>,
Amazon.pl <https://amzn.to/3aAlIsR>, Amazon.se <https://amzn.to/3z4oujB>
Unboxing
I don't do the unboxing stuff very often and typically leave that for
YouTube. In this case though we are exploring the experience vs. Raspberry
Pi so it's a useful endeavor. Given that let's do what I assume is the
first blog-based unboxing of a hardware product in a written medium that
anyone has bothered to do in years!
[image: Orange Pi Zero 2 - Unboxed]Orange Pi Zero 2 - Unboxed
From that little white box came all of these accessories! It includes a
case, the power cable (USB) and the WiFi external antenna.
That's really generous as unless you buy a vendor bundle with a Pi you
usually get nothing (with the exception of the Pi 400 Desktop Kit
<https://amzn.to/3O0kDIf>).
So far so good. They gave us everything we need to start except the SD
card. Now it's time to take a look at their web site and see what the
experience of getting an image looks like!
Orange Pi Images / Web Site
The official web site to download Orange Pi images is here at orangepi.org
<http://www.orangepi.org/html/serviceAndSupport/index.html>. It's
remarkably straight forward to use (especially compared to other SBCs) and
looks like this:
[image: Orange Pi - Official Downloads Page]Orange Pi - Official Downloads
Page
Other than a really huge amount of empty space around the search box in the
middle of the page for no reason I really like it.
I clicked the Orange Pi Zero 2 model specific download page:
[image: Orange Pi Zero 2 - Model Download Page]Orange Pi Zero 2 - Model
Download Page
This surprised me a little bit. They actually have an Ubuntu image, an
Android image and a Debian image all ready to go! They also have the
respective source code available for Linux and Android.
I chose the Ubuntu image. There were many versions available which brings
us to our most important tip.
Pro Tip: Choose the newest image / kernel
During my testing on GitHub with munecito we discovered that using the
older "stable" image he could not successfully complete several tests on my
storage benchmark without the Orange Pi completely locking up / crashing.
I recognized these types of lockups / crashes as usually being related to
the kernel. I'd seen some of these kernel fixes for Raspberry Pi take
*years* to make it through all the necessary checks / processes to make it
into to the kernel. Once that happens it then needs to be backported into
the specific kernel you are using.
Given how long this process can take for a manufacturer as big as Raspberry
Pi I figured for Orange Pi that some of them may never make it into some of
those old "stable" backported kernels. We then tried imaging it with a
newer 5.X kernel and finally after much frustration he was able to
successfully complete the storage benchmark!
The newer kernel had fixed the issues that were causing it to crash. On
these smaller board manufacturers it's definitely best to go with a newer
kernel. The older "stable" kernels make sense for well-established boards
that are well supported. These boards are new and fixes are being made all
the time and you definitely want to have those!
Imaging
Imaging was pretty straight forward. You just use a standard imaging tool
like Etcher or Win32DiskImager or any of the other many image writing tools.
I actually just used Ubuntu's built in "Disk Imager" tool to write the
image which worked perfectly.
Conclusion
The Orange Pi at a price of around ~$35 or so reminds me a lot of the
original Raspberry Pi. This is a much more accessible board than the
Raspberry Pi today both in availability and price.
I hope the Raspberry Pi foundation gets back to their roots a little bit
here and offers realistic options at this price point again. They made a
decision to support the industrial partners through this shortage above
consumers because they acknowledge that people have built their entire
business models and livelihoods around the product. The pain for
non-industrial users is real though in the mean time and for that reason I
wanted to examine some alternatives.
The original intended use for this board by munecito is for a Pi Hole. That
is a *perfect* use case for a board like this. You don't need to buy a
Raspberry Pi for a Pi Hole anymore and you shouldn't if it is costing you
$100+. I would highly recommend it for projects like a PiHole or other low
powered servers / services as you will save a fortune getting a board like
this and the performance is more than enough for that use case.
Is it as good as the Raspberry Pi? No it's not as good as the Raspberry Pi.
If the Raspberry Pi is 5 stars I would give Orange Pi about 4 stars which
is the closest any other manufacturer has come.
And that's it! It's not quite finished yet but it has most if it in there
and all of your mentions. I figure you will not mind this but I wouldn't
publish it without asking you first. Thanks again for the board as well!
…-James Chambers
On Fri, May 13, 2022 at 2:43 AM munecito ***@***.***> wrote:
No worries. I'm trying now the Ubuntu image.
Then I'll try the desktop versions as the Ubuntu is something different
again.
Then I'll make up my mind about what distro to use.
Thank you for all your help.
—
Reply to this email directly, view it on GitHub
<#22 (comment)>,
or unsubscribe
<https://github.com/notifications/unsubscribe-auth/ADUH22O2ZJ5FYL2NYCZR25DVJYI4RANCNFSM5VSBGAUA>
.
You are receiving this because you modified the open/close state.Message
ID: ***@***.***>
|
Hello James.
Yeah mate. It is all good. I don't mind it at all.
Just one observation. I think I'm one paragraph you got your devices mixed up.
"The Raspberry Pi Zero W is the wireless-capable version of the Pi Zero. It
has a much smaller form factor than a full size Pi making it ideal for use
in projects that benefit from a very small form factor while having a fully
capable Linux PC. It costs about the same as the original Raspberry Pi used
to long ago (~$35 give or take)."
Are you still talking about the orange pi zero 2 or are you comparing with the raspberry equivalent board?
The rest is all good.
Have you run anything on the board? My pihole is working fine, other than a log full issue that I can't seem to be able to resolve.
Kind regards.
Will
Get TypeApp for Android<http://www.typeapp.com/r>
On 14 July 2022, at 6:18 am, "James A. Chambers" ***@***.******@***.***>> wrote:
Hello again!
I hope you're doing well. I wanted to email you as I did end up checking
out the Pi Zero 2 board and wrote a review. I did mention you in the
review and wanted to make sure you were okay with this before I published.
I mainly referenced our GitHub conversation and what we learned about the
newer kernel greatly helping with the hardware support in the board (and
letting it successfully complete a benchmark for the first time). Here's a
draft of what I'm writing:
[image: Orange Pi Zero 2 - Included Case]Orange Pi Zero 2 - Included Case
Recently for my storage benchmarking site I had a GitHub issue opened about
the Orange Pi Zero 2 <#22>
not being able to complete the storage benchmark successfully. We were able
to get the board going after a lot of troubleshooting but it was pretty
difficult to troubleshoot as I had never had one of these boards before.
Until now! I recently received my first and only ever hardware donation to
the site from *munecito <https://github.com/munecito>* who graciously
donated one of these boards to help improve the benchmark (it did not only
for SBCs but it now supports PCs as well). Thank you munecito!
I was very interested in how this board compares to the Raspberry Pi
experience and ecosystem because we are having a massive Raspberry Pi
shortage
<https://jamesachambers.com/raspberry-pi-shortage-sources-strategies/>
right now and that is exactly what we are going to do. I also have some
general tips for getting the most out of the Orange Pi based on our
troubleshooting experience. Let's proceed!
Hardware Used
[image: Orange Pi Zero 2]Orange Pi Zero 2
The Raspberry Pi Zero W is the wireless-capable version of the Pi Zero. It
has a much smaller form factor than a full size Pi making it ideal for use
in projects that benefit from a very small form factor while having a fully
capable Linux PC. It costs about the same as the original Raspberry Pi used
to long ago (~$35 give or take).
Links: Amazon.com <https://amzn.to/3PreJkA>, AliExpress.com
<https://s.click.aliexpress.com/e/_DE26JGP>, Amazon.ca
<https://amzn.to/3ANEnw6>, Amazon.co.jp <https://amzn.to/3aC7yas>,
Amazon.co.uk <https://amzn.to/3IyTfjJ>, Amazon.de <https://amzn.to/3cdPWCb>,
Amazon.es <https://amzn.to/3aBIGjf>, Amazon.fr <https://amzn.to/3O6I16W>,
Amazon.it <https://amzn.to/3Pb1Nj9>, Amazon.nl <https://amzn.to/3Pr7pWo>,
Amazon.pl <https://amzn.to/3aAlIsR>, Amazon.se <https://amzn.to/3z4oujB>
Unboxing
I don't do the unboxing stuff very often and typically leave that for
YouTube. In this case though we are exploring the experience vs. Raspberry
Pi so it's a useful endeavor. Given that let's do what I assume is the
first blog-based unboxing of a hardware product in a written medium that
anyone has bothered to do in years!
[image: Orange Pi Zero 2 - Unboxed]Orange Pi Zero 2 - Unboxed
From that little white box came all of these accessories! It includes a
case, the power cable (USB) and the WiFi external antenna.
That's really generous as unless you buy a vendor bundle with a Pi you
usually get nothing (with the exception of the Pi 400 Desktop Kit
<https://amzn.to/3O0kDIf>).
So far so good. They gave us everything we need to start except the SD
card. Now it's time to take a look at their web site and see what the
experience of getting an image looks like!
Orange Pi Images / Web Site
The official web site to download Orange Pi images is here at orangepi.org
<http://www.orangepi.org/html/serviceAndSupport/index.html>. It's
remarkably straight forward to use (especially compared to other SBCs) and
looks like this:
[image: Orange Pi - Official Downloads Page]Orange Pi - Official Downloads
Page
Other than a really huge amount of empty space around the search box in the
middle of the page for no reason I really like it.
I clicked the Orange Pi Zero 2 model specific download page:
[image: Orange Pi Zero 2 - Model Download Page]Orange Pi Zero 2 - Model
Download Page
This surprised me a little bit. They actually have an Ubuntu image, an
Android image and a Debian image all ready to go! They also have the
respective source code available for Linux and Android.
I chose the Ubuntu image. There were many versions available which brings
us to our most important tip.
Pro Tip: Choose the newest image / kernel
During my testing on GitHub with munecito we discovered that using the
older "stable" image he could not successfully complete several tests on my
storage benchmark without the Orange Pi completely locking up / crashing.
I recognized these types of lockups / crashes as usually being related to
the kernel. I'd seen some of these kernel fixes for Raspberry Pi take
*years* to make it through all the necessary checks / processes to make it
into to the kernel. Once that happens it then needs to be backported into
the specific kernel you are using.
Given how long this process can take for a manufacturer as big as Raspberry
Pi I figured for Orange Pi that some of them may never make it into some of
those old "stable" backported kernels. We then tried imaging it with a
newer 5.X kernel and finally after much frustration he was able to
successfully complete the storage benchmark!
The newer kernel had fixed the issues that were causing it to crash. On
these smaller board manufacturers it's definitely best to go with a newer
kernel. The older "stable" kernels make sense for well-established boards
that are well supported. These boards are new and fixes are being made all
the time and you definitely want to have those!
Imaging
Imaging was pretty straight forward. You just use a standard imaging tool
like Etcher or Win32DiskImager or any of the other many image writing tools.
I actually just used Ubuntu's built in "Disk Imager" tool to write the
image which worked perfectly.
Conclusion
The Orange Pi at a price of around ~$35 or so reminds me a lot of the
original Raspberry Pi. This is a much more accessible board than the
Raspberry Pi today both in availability and price.
I hope the Raspberry Pi foundation gets back to their roots a little bit
here and offers realistic options at this price point again. They made a
decision to support the industrial partners through this shortage above
consumers because they acknowledge that people have built their entire
business models and livelihoods around the product. The pain for
non-industrial users is real though in the mean time and for that reason I
wanted to examine some alternatives.
The original intended use for this board by munecito is for a Pi Hole. That
is a *perfect* use case for a board like this. You don't need to buy a
Raspberry Pi for a Pi Hole anymore and you shouldn't if it is costing you
$100+. I would highly recommend it for projects like a PiHole or other low
powered servers / services as you will save a fortune getting a board like
this and the performance is more than enough for that use case.
Is it as good as the Raspberry Pi? No it's not as good as the Raspberry Pi.
If the Raspberry Pi is 5 stars I would give Orange Pi about 4 stars which
is the closest any other manufacturer has come.
And that's it! It's not quite finished yet but it has most if it in there
and all of your mentions. I figure you will not mind this but I wouldn't
publish it without asking you first. Thanks again for the board as well!
-James Chambers
On Fri, May 13, 2022 at 2:43 AM munecito ***@***.***> wrote:
No worries. I'm trying now the Ubuntu image.
Then I'll try the desktop versions as the Ubuntu is something different
again.
Then I'll make up my mind about what distro to use.
Thank you for all your help.
—
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Fantastic, thank you!
I've just published it at
https://jamesachambers.com/orange-pi-zero-2-review-tips/
Thanks for letting me know about the product description (I hadn't updated
that part and had only updated the picture after a copy/paste of my
template). I got that fixed before putting it live.
Definitely check out the final version as this one I linked you was missing
the part where I booted it up (and then updated it with apt) and then ran
the storage benchmark. I actually got a very respectable score of 1,081
with my application class (A1) SanDisk Ultra card which is pretty
impressive! It's still off by about 15 % so I estimated between the two of
us it was about 20% off from what a Pi 4's performance would be (which is
fantastic for how much LESS it costs than a Pi 4).
Thanks again, take care!
…On Wed, Jul 13, 2022 at 5:53 PM munecito ***@***.***> wrote:
Hello James.
Yeah mate. It is all good. I don't mind it at all.
Just one observation. I think I'm one paragraph you got your devices mixed
up.
"The Raspberry Pi Zero W is the wireless-capable version of the Pi Zero.
It
has a much smaller form factor than a full size Pi making it ideal for use
in projects that benefit from a very small form factor while having a
fully
capable Linux PC. It costs about the same as the original Raspberry Pi
used
to long ago (~$35 give or take)."
Are you still talking about the orange pi zero 2 or are you comparing with
the raspberry equivalent board?
The rest is all good.
Have you run anything on the board? My pihole is working fine, other than
a log full issue that I can't seem to be able to resolve.
Kind regards.
Will
Get TypeApp for Android<http://www.typeapp.com/r>
On 14 July 2022, at 6:18 am, "James A. Chambers" ***@***.******@***.***>>
wrote:
Hello again!
I hope you're doing well. I wanted to email you as I did end up checking
out the Pi Zero 2 board and wrote a review. I did mention you in the
review and wanted to make sure you were okay with this before I published.
I mainly referenced our GitHub conversation and what we learned about the
newer kernel greatly helping with the hardware support in the board (and
letting it successfully complete a benchmark for the first time). Here's a
draft of what I'm writing:
[image: Orange Pi Zero 2 - Included Case]Orange Pi Zero 2 - Included Case
Recently for my storage benchmarking site I had a GitHub issue opened
about
the Orange Pi Zero 2 <#22>
not being able to complete the storage benchmark successfully. We were
able
to get the board going after a lot of troubleshooting but it was pretty
difficult to troubleshoot as I had never had one of these boards before.
Until now! I recently received my first and only ever hardware donation to
the site from *munecito <https://github.com/munecito>* who graciously
donated one of these boards to help improve the benchmark (it did not only
for SBCs but it now supports PCs as well). Thank you munecito!
I was very interested in how this board compares to the Raspberry Pi
experience and ecosystem because we are having a massive Raspberry Pi
shortage
<https://jamesachambers.com/raspberry-pi-shortage-sources-strategies/>
right now and that is exactly what we are going to do. I also have some
general tips for getting the most out of the Orange Pi based on our
troubleshooting experience. Let's proceed!
Hardware Used
[image: Orange Pi Zero 2]Orange Pi Zero 2
The Raspberry Pi Zero W is the wireless-capable version of the Pi Zero. It
has a much smaller form factor than a full size Pi making it ideal for use
in projects that benefit from a very small form factor while having a
fully
capable Linux PC. It costs about the same as the original Raspberry Pi
used
to long ago (~$35 give or take).
Links: Amazon.com <https://amzn.to/3PreJkA>, AliExpress.com
<https://s.click.aliexpress.com/e/_DE26JGP>, Amazon.ca
<https://amzn.to/3ANEnw6>, Amazon.co.jp <https://amzn.to/3aC7yas>,
Amazon.co.uk <https://amzn.to/3IyTfjJ>, Amazon.de <https://amzn.to/3cdPWCb>,
Amazon.es <https://amzn.to/3aBIGjf>, Amazon.fr <https://amzn.to/3O6I16W>,
Amazon.it <https://amzn.to/3Pb1Nj9>, Amazon.nl <https://amzn.to/3Pr7pWo>,
Amazon.pl <https://amzn.to/3aAlIsR>, Amazon.se <https://amzn.to/3z4oujB>
Unboxing
I don't do the unboxing stuff very often and typically leave that for
YouTube. In this case though we are exploring the experience vs. Raspberry
Pi so it's a useful endeavor. Given that let's do what I assume is the
first blog-based unboxing of a hardware product in a written medium that
anyone has bothered to do in years!
[image: Orange Pi Zero 2 - Unboxed]Orange Pi Zero 2 - Unboxed
From that little white box came all of these accessories! It includes a
case, the power cable (USB) and the WiFi external antenna.
That's really generous as unless you buy a vendor bundle with a Pi you
usually get nothing (with the exception of the Pi 400 Desktop Kit
<https://amzn.to/3O0kDIf>).
So far so good. They gave us everything we need to start except the SD
card. Now it's time to take a look at their web site and see what the
experience of getting an image looks like!
Orange Pi Images / Web Site
The official web site to download Orange Pi images is here at orangepi.org
<http://www.orangepi.org/html/serviceAndSupport/index.html>. It's
remarkably straight forward to use (especially compared to other SBCs) and
looks like this:
[image: Orange Pi - Official Downloads Page]Orange Pi - Official Downloads
Page
Other than a really huge amount of empty space around the search box in
the
middle of the page for no reason I really like it.
I clicked the Orange Pi Zero 2 model specific download page:
[image: Orange Pi Zero 2 - Model Download Page]Orange Pi Zero 2 - Model
Download Page
This surprised me a little bit. They actually have an Ubuntu image, an
Android image and a Debian image all ready to go! They also have the
respective source code available for Linux and Android.
I chose the Ubuntu image. There were many versions available which brings
us to our most important tip.
Pro Tip: Choose the newest image / kernel
During my testing on GitHub with munecito we discovered that using the
older "stable" image he could not successfully complete several tests on
my
storage benchmark without the Orange Pi completely locking up / crashing.
I recognized these types of lockups / crashes as usually being related to
the kernel. I'd seen some of these kernel fixes for Raspberry Pi take
*years* to make it through all the necessary checks / processes to make it
into to the kernel. Once that happens it then needs to be backported into
the specific kernel you are using.
Given how long this process can take for a manufacturer as big as
Raspberry
Pi I figured for Orange Pi that some of them may never make it into some
of
those old "stable" backported kernels. We then tried imaging it with a
newer 5.X kernel and finally after much frustration he was able to
successfully complete the storage benchmark!
The newer kernel had fixed the issues that were causing it to crash. On
these smaller board manufacturers it's definitely best to go with a newer
kernel. The older "stable" kernels make sense for well-established boards
that are well supported. These boards are new and fixes are being made all
the time and you definitely want to have those!
Imaging
Imaging was pretty straight forward. You just use a standard imaging tool
like Etcher or Win32DiskImager or any of the other many image writing
tools.
I actually just used Ubuntu's built in "Disk Imager" tool to write the
image which worked perfectly.
Conclusion
The Orange Pi at a price of around ~$35 or so reminds me a lot of the
original Raspberry Pi. This is a much more accessible board than the
Raspberry Pi today both in availability and price.
I hope the Raspberry Pi foundation gets back to their roots a little bit
here and offers realistic options at this price point again. They made a
decision to support the industrial partners through this shortage above
consumers because they acknowledge that people have built their entire
business models and livelihoods around the product. The pain for
non-industrial users is real though in the mean time and for that reason I
wanted to examine some alternatives.
The original intended use for this board by munecito is for a Pi Hole.
That
is a *perfect* use case for a board like this. You don't need to buy a
Raspberry Pi for a Pi Hole anymore and you shouldn't if it is costing you
$100+. I would highly recommend it for projects like a PiHole or other low
powered servers / services as you will save a fortune getting a board like
this and the performance is more than enough for that use case.
Is it as good as the Raspberry Pi? No it's not as good as the Raspberry
Pi.
If the Raspberry Pi is 5 stars I would give Orange Pi about 4 stars which
is the closest any other manufacturer has come.
And that's it! It's not quite finished yet but it has most if it in there
and all of your mentions. I figure you will not mind this but I wouldn't
publish it without asking you first. Thanks again for the board as well!
-James Chambers
On Fri, May 13, 2022 at 2:43 AM munecito ***@***.***> wrote:
> No worries. I'm trying now the Ubuntu image.
>
> Then I'll try the desktop versions as the Ubuntu is something different
> again.
>
> Then I'll make up my mind about what distro to use.
>
> Thank you for all your help.
>
> —
> Reply to this email directly, view it on GitHub
> <
#22 (comment)>,
> or unsubscribe
> <
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> .
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It crashes at the same place each time.
"Running additional hardware identification tests..." It just freezes and can't do anything with the SBC other than pull the cord to restart it.
The text was updated successfully, but these errors were encountered: