Replies: 24 comments 2 replies
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Thank you for your message bstajcar,
fddEMU might work with the slimmer 128x32 i2c oled screen after some
adjustments in code.
If possible first check fddEMU works with your laptop and scope, if it
works please let me know, I will try to code for smaller screen.
Arduino IDE threw errors compiling fddEMU last time I tried, which was over
a year ago. I don't know if things changed but I wouldn't count on it.
acemielektron
…On Thu, Feb 9, 2023, 11:25 bstajcar ***@***.***> wrote:
Just a question: I would like to build a low profile (13-15mm) FFD for mu
Toshiba T1850 (and for Agilent scope as well) because they are both faulty
(mechanics.. transmission rubber belts are de-composed) so obviously the
display must also be low profile to fit into the slot.
So, how to change display? (I am not very good at coding, sorry.. )
And, is there any hope the source can be compiled in the usual Arduino-way?
Thank you in advance!
Best regards,
Bojan
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Hi acemielektron, Now I have a question: Is there a quick/easy way to format SD card (I have 2GB.. that means there will be ~2k of files on it) ? Thank you in advance and best regards, |
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Hi acemielektron, |
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Thanks for writing.
I have been planning to adapt fddEMU to 128x32 OLED for a while. I just
couldn't find time for it. Now with your request, I hope I can adapt the
code soon.
…On Sun, Jul 2, 2023, 09:38 bstajcar ***@***.***> wrote:
Hi acemielektron,
It seems it works OK..
I decided to use 5-way switch instead of 5 push-buttons in my fdesign, to
make room for LCD at the front.
The design the PCB will be similar to HxC, with 3 different interface
connectors (flat ribbon and IDC connectors).
So perhaps now is the time to modify the code to accommodate low profile
LCD.
Can you help me with this? I would greatly appreciate if you can do it,
since am not very good at writing code.
Thanks in advance!
Bojan
[image: c_75]
<https://user-images.githubusercontent.com/17623823/250339079-85f4306d-fa67-4d5a-9aa4-82dccc22cd90.jpg>
[image: c_77]
<https://user-images.githubusercontent.com/17623823/250339085-52e7474d-2f34-4a2e-8ad5-e535236c92ac.jpg>
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Thank you! |
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Try make HALFLCD=1 FLIP=0 DUAL=0. or try https://github.com/acemielektron/fddEMU/releases/tag/23e73d3
initializes LCD as 128x32, suitable for single drive config. Floppy image loading
works. Splash and Info/Warning screens needs redesign.
Also your 5 way switch idea is very nice. Resulting build would be really compact.
…On Sun, Jul 2, 2023, 23:44 bstajcar ***@***.***> wrote:
Thank you!
And I will certainly share the PCB design with you when I finish it.
I am thinking about making the board a bit smaller than actual micro-FFD
form factor.. so the enclosure (or just front plate) that fits into the
device space can be 3D printed.
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Excellent! |
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I have a problem now... LCD display and terminal screen are not quite consistent and a bit confusing... Which button corresponds to what command from keyboard? |
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No disc means, no floppy image loaded. You can either load a floppy image
from the SD card using screen and buttons or using the serial terminal. A
good alternative while testing would be placing a floppy image named
"boot.img" on SD card which fddEMU auto loads at startup.
If (despite placing floppy images on SD) there is no floppy image listed on
either screen menu or serial terminal this means either fddEMU can't read
sd-card due to broken electrical connections or wrong filesystem.
Just make sure you have formatted your SD card as fat16 or fat32 then place
floppy images (as many as you want) on it.
…On Tue, Jul 4, 2023, 05:29 bstajcar ***@***.***> wrote:
I have a problem now...
I formatted 2GB SD with USB_Floppy_Manager_v1.40i with 720kB size and
placed images (created with WinImage (imported format from floppy)) and
that looks OK in manager.
However fddEMU says "No disk". what would be the cause for this? there is
no indication on screen or terminal which floppy image fddEMU is trying to
read.
[image: c_73]
<https://user-images.githubusercontent.com/17623823/250713451-3fbe36fc-1a00-4e9a-906d-813d5174c6cc.jpg>
[image: c_78]
<https://user-images.githubusercontent.com/17623823/250713559-f4b8443d-6202-4edf-a3c7-6e4d99a20f7a.jpg>
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Another hurdle (I hope the last one :-) ) I connected the fddEMU to desktop via USB-FDD adapter.. |
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Hi Acemi,
Still no joy... From LCD point of view everything looks OK: disk image
is recognized, on terminal I can even see info on floppy (below, it is
1.44MB DOS6.22 with some apps on it)
********
FS: FAT12
BPS: 512 Heads: 2 SPT: 18 Total Sec: 2880
BUSY
A:R0/0/1
A:R0/0/2
A:R0/0/3
A:R0/0/4
A:R0/0/5
A:R0/0/6
A:R0/0/7**********When tried to access the drive, I can see on LCD
screen the icon (presumably "card active", and terminal shows activity
but, PC can't read the drive and wants to format it (I didn't try this
because I didn't want to introduce more unknowns in my testing.I
triple check the wiring between IDC and NANO, it's correct....
So... what else can I do?
The only suspect now is that USB-floppy interface, I will try it with
"real" FDD.. And of course, I may want to use PC with FDD inteface..
Thanks for your help and best regards,
Bojan
…----- Original Message -----
From: "acemielektron/fddEMU"
To:"acemielektron/fddEMU"
Cc:"bstajcar" , "Author"
Sent:Mon, 03 Jul 2023 22:09:49 -0700
Subject:Re: [acemielektron/fddEMU] Slim style FDD needed (Discussion
#26)
No disc means, no floppy image loaded. You can either load a floppy
image
from the SD card using screen and buttons or using the serial
terminal. A
good alternative while testing would be placing a floppy image named
"boot.img" on SD card which fddEMU auto loads at startup.
If (despite placing floppy images on SD) there is no floppy image
listed on
either screen menu or serial terminal this means either fddEMU can't
read
sd-card due to broken electrical connections or wrong filesystem.
Just make sure you have formatted your SD card as fat16 or fat32 then
place
floppy images (as many as you want) on it.
On Tue, Jul 4, 2023, 05:29 bstajcar ***@******> wrote:
I have a problem now...
I formatted 2GB SD with USB_Floppy_Manager_v1.40i with 720kB size
and
placed images (created with WinImage (imported format from floppy))
and
that looks OK in manager.
However fddEMU says "No disk". what would be the cause for this?
there is
no indication on screen or terminal which floppy image fddEMU is
trying to
read.
[image: c_73]
[image: c_78]
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Hi Bojan,
I am not sure why image is not recognized. I will test fddEMU and let you
know if something got broken.
…On Thu, Jul 6, 2023, 02:24 bstajcar ***@***.***> wrote:
Hi Acemi,
Still no joy... From LCD point of view everything looks OK: disk image
is recognized, on terminal I can even see info on floppy (below, it is
1.44MB DOS6.22 with some apps on it)
********
FS: FAT12
BPS: 512 Heads: 2 SPT: 18 Total Sec: 2880
BUSY
A:R0/0/1
A:R0/0/2
A:R0/0/3
A:R0/0/4
A:R0/0/5
A:R0/0/6
A:R0/0/7**********When tried to access the drive, I can see on LCD
screen the icon (presumably "card active", and terminal shows activity
but, PC can't read the drive and wants to format it (I didn't try this
because I didn't want to introduce more unknowns in my testing.I
triple check the wiring between IDC and NANO, it's correct....
So... what else can I do?
The only suspect now is that USB-floppy interface, I will try it with
"real" FDD.. And of course, I may want to use PC with FDD inteface..
Thanks for your help and best regards,
Bojan
----- Original Message -----
From: "acemielektron/fddEMU"
To:"acemielektron/fddEMU"
Cc:"bstajcar" , "Author"
Sent:Mon, 03 Jul 2023 22:09:49 -0700
Subject:Re: [acemielektron/fddEMU] Slim style FDD needed (Discussion
#26)
No disc means, no floppy image loaded. You can either load a floppy
image
from the SD card using screen and buttons or using the serial
terminal. A
good alternative while testing would be placing a floppy image named
"boot.img" on SD card which fddEMU auto loads at startup.
If (despite placing floppy images on SD) there is no floppy image
listed on
either screen menu or serial terminal this means either fddEMU can't
read
sd-card due to broken electrical connections or wrong filesystem.
Just make sure you have formatted your SD card as fat16 or fat32 then
place
floppy images (as many as you want) on it.
On Tue, Jul 4, 2023, 05:29 bstajcar ***@******> wrote:
> I have a problem now...
> I formatted 2GB SD with USB_Floppy_Manager_v1.40i with 720kB size
and
> placed images (created with WinImage (imported format from floppy))
and
> that looks OK in manager.
> However fddEMU says "No disk". what would be the cause for this?
there is
> no indication on screen or terminal which floppy image fddEMU is
trying to
> read.
> [image: c_73]
>
> [image: c_78]
>
>
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Thank you! |
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Sorry for the late reply. I had to rebuild a testing rig (arduinoFDC). Then
repair my fddEMU, without a PCB cabling is tricky. I have tested reading
with both arduinoFDC and a PC. The result: ok, both tests passed. Since I
haven't changed anything in emulation code, this was expected.
So if things doesn't work, please test cabling, and the 2 pull-up
resistors.
Please let me know your results.
Thanks
…On Thu, Jul 6, 2023, 08:39 bstajcar ***@***.***> wrote:
Thank you!
I also tested 2 mechanical FDs.. Interestingly, this USB-FDD adapter (from
aliexpress) seems to recognize only 1.44 floppies.. when I insert 720kb,
windows behaves in the same manner as with fddEMU... so it could be some
in-compatibility there. I have to find old PC with FDcontroller to try
again.
In the meantime, I am working on PCB... this is what it will look like.
[image: c_90]
<https://user-images.githubusercontent.com/17623823/251353829-7f788d20-3bc0-42a3-8197-f343ff6aebcf.jpg>
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Thank you for the reply :-)And thank you for your confirmation effort.
I was expecting all to be OK from your side, but now I feel much more
confident for the good outcome here.
At this moment, I am building arduinoFDC in my spare time, waiting for
crimping tool to make cabling between ArduinoFDC (A-NANO) and fddEMU
properly (I couldn't find working PC), so I will certainly let you
know the result when I have that working.This is going to be a really
good project, it has great potential :-)
I hope my PCB will also turn out good.
Best regards from Down under,
Bojan
…----- Original Message -----
From: "acemielektron/fddEMU"
To:"acemielektron/fddEMU"
Cc:"bstajcar" , "Author"
Sent:Fri, 28 Jul 2023 01:58:18 -0700
Subject:Re: [acemielektron/fddEMU] Slim style FDD needed (Discussion
#26)
Sorry for the late reply. I had to rebuild a testing jig
(arduinoFDC). Then
repair my fddEMU, without a PCB cabling is tricky. I have tested
reading
with both arduinoFDC and a PC. The result: ok, both tests passed.
Since I
haven't changed anything in emulation code, this was expected.
So if things doesn't work, please test cabling, and the 2 pull-up
resistors.
Please let me know your results.
Thanks
On Thu, Jul 6, 2023, 08:39 bstajcar ***@***.***> wrote:
Thank you!
I also tested 2 mechanical FDs.. Interestingly, this USB-FDD
adapter (from
aliexpress) seems to recognize only 1.44 floppies.. when I insert
720kb,
windows behaves in the same manner as with fddEMU... so it could be
some
in-compatibility there. I have to find old PC with FDcontroller to
try
again.
In the meantime, I am working on PCB... this is what it will look
like.
[image: c_90]
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I still have a problem.. On ArduinoFDC terminal plot, However, when I change ArduinoFDC from A: to B:, it works... (I used "atmega328p-single-debug.hex"). |
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Hi acemielektron, |
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Hi, Bojan
I wanted to examine fddEMU output on my build before replying but that
required building a somewhat working ossiloscope which I haven't been able
to, yet. I might have tried those AliExpress USB 1.44 adapters myself but
it's cost (due to tax in my country) is prohibitively expensive for such a
simple device.
From what I understand you have already tested your build with with Arduino
FDC and it worked. When drive select and motor on signals are asserted
fddEMU like a real fdd would output data, this data should be 500khz MFM
for HD (1.44M) disks. And whenever these two signals are deasserted fddEMU
should stop pumping data. Perfect square waves at 250khz means continuous
MFM encoded 0. That is no meaningful data. It shouldn't have worked with
Arduino FDC at all. Even sector data is all zeroes there are sector
headers, gaps, etc. fddEMU shouldn't output continuous zero.
If I could set up an ossiloscope I would look at the traces myself and
compare to yours. In the mean time, looking forward to hearing from you.
acemielektron
…On Thu, Aug 17, 2023, 04:47 bstajcar ***@***.***> wrote:
Hi acemielektron,
I was wandering..
fddEMU definetly works OK via ArduinoFDC interface, and most probably all
will be OK on PC (still trying to find one for test).
When testing and investigating problem with Aliexpress USB 1.44 adapter
<https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000293262310.html?spm=a2g0o.productlist.main.1.5d7238b6WS0rfq&algo_pvid=82574d85-935c-48b6-b25b-550de614ef78&algo_exp_id=82574d85-935c-48b6-b25b-550de614ef78-0&pdp_npi=4%40dis%21AUD%2113.96%2111.45%21%21%218.86%21%21%402101f49716922361061601373e8d9b%2112000026843482389%21sea%21AU%21866261649%21&curPageLogUid=o8Hqy7kQqLct>
annd comparing it with ArduinoFDC, I noticed fddEMU outputs constant 250kHz
square wave from D9 once data transmission is done, see osciloscope screen
below (lower row. Upper row is the same signal with mechanical FDD)). There
is also some jitter visible on D9, not present (or smaller) on "real"
(mechanical FDD.
Could one of those be the reason USB adapter doesn't recognize fddEMU?
[image: Comparison-FDD vs fddEMU]
<https://user-images.githubusercontent.com/17623823/261174362-b83c26cc-0c71-40b8-be10-a59dafef32c7.jpg>
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Hi Acemielektron, Thank you for your quick reply. Yes, perhaps you could try to borrow oscilloscope from somewhere (old, analogue one is also quite OK for this kind of investigations), because the same waveform is also present when I was using ArduinoFDC, but as you saw on my screen dumps, "DIR" command resulted in OK-looking directory list (despite spurious that continuous 250kHz waveform after first data transfer, which apparently didn't have any ill effect here.. maybe it will be OK in PC as well? I will let you know when I find one for test - they are very rare these days, and I am reluctant to dismantle my Agilent oscilloscope for test at the moment). Thanks again for your help :-) Regards, Bojan BTW, you can probe D9 output without oscilloscope, you can use multimeter (DC voltmeter). |
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Ok, I remember now, that continuous zero is by design, I mean I programmed
timer1 to output MFM 0 when idle. I just didn't thought about that before.
You know arduino generates PWM by using timers, atmega328 has two 8 bit
timers (timer0 and timer2) and single 16 bit timer (timer1) which is used
in fddEMU to both generate MFM and capture MFM coming from the controller
(it is atmega328's only timer with capture capability). I thought loading
MFM pattern for 0 is better than loading timer with something random, such
as last loaded value. From floppy drive controller's (FDC) perspective this
is not important, because it is not reading floppy data while idle. If you
have read the readme.md, I am sure you have seen "*fddEMU** is not an cycle
exact floppy emulator , it is more of a hack (it's a bit slower than actual
fdd) but it works because floppy controllers have sensible timeouts and we
take advantage of that*." (first line describing limitations of fddEMU).
Why? Because the 1.44M HD floppy has 18 sectors of 512 bytes on each track,
and to be faithful to timings we need to cache all of them in RAM. For 18
sectors we need 18x512b = 9Kb of RAM which atmega328 certainly doesn't
have. So we send the first sector, read the second from the sd-card, then
send that. We have no way of automating either reading sector data from sd,
or writing read data to FDC, because atmega328 lacks a DMA controller. On
the other hand FDC doesn't need one sector coming immediately after the
previous one, as long as it reads the requested sector within 5 rotations
of track (200ms each) it would be happy and wont raise an error. So
although the next sector's data comes a little later compared to a real
floppy as long as the data comes within allotted time FDC doesn't care. And
each successful read of a sector resets that timer. FDC also doesn't care
what is coming from the read line unless it is actively reading it, which
it signals by asserting both motor on and drive select signals. So fddEMU
works.
I don't know how they programmed usb floppy adapters sold at aliexpress,
but I doubt it complies with PC FDC behaviour. I guess it is another hack.
fddEMU being a hack itself probably doesn't work with such adapters. I
guess a sensible firmware update on those usb floppy adapters would enable
not only reading fddEMU but also 720K DD disks and other 5.25" formats.
In hindsight Raspberry pi pico (RP2040 has 264K RAM and also has DMA) which
is now even cheaper than arduino nano -which was not available at the time
I have written fddEMU- is a much better choice for implementing a floppy
emulator.
…On Thu, Aug 17, 2023 at 8:18 AM bstajcar ***@***.***> wrote:
BTW, you can probe D9 output without oscilloscope, you can use multimeter
(DC voltmeter).
If the 50% duty cycle waveform is output (as on my setup), your DC
voltmeter will show 2.5V instead of 0V or 5V (LOW or HIGH).
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Yes, I think you are 100% right here, I also think those USB adapters may be problematic (they work in most cases (only with 1.44 floppies), I tried 4 mechanical FDD's and 3 worked OK, one could be faulty...), so I didn't really think that it is actually any indication of fddEMU problem. |
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I think relatively old desktop main boards (10+ years old) might have
floppy drive connector. If you have a desktop computer check the main board
you might be surprised.
…On Fri, Aug 18, 2023, 00:23 bstajcar ***@***.***> wrote:
Yes, I think you are 100% right here, I also think those USB adapters may
be problematic (they work in most cases (only with 1.44 floppies), I tried
4 mechanical FDD's and 3 worked OK, one could be faulty...), so I didn't
really think that it is actually any indication of fddEMU problem.
No worries, I still intend to send my PCB design to PCBway for prototyping
on first occasion.. and in the meantime I am looking for old and suitable
PC to confirm all is OK with fddEMU.
Thanks for your help :-)
Regards,
Bojan
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Just a question: I would like to build a low profile (13-15mm) FFD for mu Toshiba T1850 (and for Agilent scope as well) because they are both faulty (mechanics.. transmission rubber belts are de-composed) so obviously the display must also be low profile to fit into the slot.
So, how to change display? (I am not very good at coding, sorry.. )
And, is there any hope the source can be compiled in the usual Arduino-way?
Thank you in advance!
Best regards,
Bojan
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