Expedition guns worth more money, no printable guns.

[whatston3]

About the PR

A proposal to help increase the value of expedition loot by increasing the market value of guns.

Unregistered guns should be worth something - expeditions are the only source of them, and while mechanically there's no difference (at the moment), if/when there is one, this would be an easy way to differentiate unregistered and registered guns.

Each unregistered gun is assigned a value based off of its tier (each tier's guns are worth an equivalent value). As of time of writing, there are no changes to explosives or melee weapons, but this could also be a reasonable addition.

The counterbalance to this is that researchable and printable firearms are largely gone. Botanical python spam soon™.

Adds a new poster for gun turn-ins largely derivative from work done by @Kr8art in Delta-V#2239. Thank you, it's a very nice poster.

Why / Balance

• The largest source of income for guns should really not be a government buyback.
• This gives more legitimacy to mercenary gun running as a viable strategy, which I think is good - more wiggle room for legally grey activity.

How to test

1. Run some expeditions, find some guns, appraise them.
2. Appraise them with a contraband appraisal tool, should still be worth a FUC.

Media

Do your duty, turn in your guns (heheheh)

Requirements

• I have read and am following the Pull Request and Changelog Guidelines.
• I have added media to this PR or it does not require an ingame showcase.

Breaking changes

Changelog

🆑

• tweak: Guns found on expedition are now worth more money.
• tweak: Guns are no longer printable through research.

[github-actions]

RSI Diff Bot; head commit ff5d525 merging into 5fad8b5
This PR makes changes to 1 or more RSIs. Here is a summary of all changes:

Resources/Textures/_NF/Structures/Wallmounts/posters.rsi

State	Old	New	Status
nf_poster6_legit			Added

Edit: diff updated after ff5d525

[Clay500z]

Crime... Pays? Huge

[arimah]

I am concerned that making these guns unobtainable by scientists greatly diminishes their ability to provide interesting and desirable goods, while also further limiting the really good stuff to the dungeon loot pool. Could you elaborate on how the removal of researchable guns is intended to help counterbalance things?

[Tych0theSynth]

Please...no. whatstone, please.
Science has such a hard time getting roleplay by selling stuff with what meagre pickings they have these days. Guns are one of the few things that allow you to get those interactions, which is why I even have a ship PR for a gun store science vessel, to try and encourage that.

I understand the desire to find better sources of profit from expeds, but please don't do this at the detriment to science.
They've had so much taken from them.

[whatston3]

What about scientists?

• A modular system that can only be produced by scientists to improve guns might be interesting.
• As-is, competing against better guns found on expeditions begs the question of who you're selling to.

Competing against an oversaturated market is a bit less than ideal, and conflicts with the purpose of the security uplink in the case of dealing with the NFSD.

I think if science recipes could exist with guns, not as them, that could be neat. My largest issue with science is that it's a one-time gate (that's quite easy to break) and then you have access to everything in the world on demand assuming you have materials. Not great.

[blackknight954]

My comrade in code, at least adjust the spawn rates to compensate for not being able to easily get em anymore, no?

[dvir001]

My comrade in code, at least adjust the spawn rates to compensate for not being able to easily get em anymore, no?

What is a vending machine that sell guns Alex, 500$

Also to be honest, that's another PR issue, but yes sure, can be and should be adjusted.

[dvir001]

Also if just removing guns makes sci invalidated for selling goods our issue isn't the guns, our issue is that there is no good tech or worth research.

[blackknight954]

My comrade in code, at least adjust the spawn rates to compensate for not being able to easily get em anymore, no?

What is a vending machine that sell guns Alex, 500$

Also to be honest, that's another PR issue.

You can't get a laser or xray cannon from the vending machine, or a laser rifle

[dvir001]

My comrade in code, at least adjust the spawn rates to compensate for not being able to easily get em anymore, no?

What is a vending machine that sell guns Alex, 500$
Also to be honest, that's another PR issue.

You can't get a laser or xray cannon from the vending machine, or a laser rifle

Good, intended to be a starting point not the end goal.
If we need to make the lasers more common on expo its not an issue.

[Tych0theSynth]

What about scientists?

* A modular system that can only be produced by scientists to improve guns might be interesting.

* As-is, competing against better guns found on expeditions begs the question of who you're selling to.

Competing against an oversaturated market is a bit less than ideal, and conflicts with the purpose of the security uplink in the case of dealing with the NFSD.

I think if science recipes could exist with guns, not as them, that could be neat. My largest issue with science is that it's a one-time gate (that's quite easy to break) and then you have access to everything in the world on demand assuming you have materials. Not great.

But that's my point. As someone who has put a lot of time into science on this server and mapping sci vessels, we don't have anything to supplement what scientists have lost over the last year+
I don't think it's a good decision nor particularly fair on an already roleplay-starved gameplay loop to cut even more away without first doing something to address the larger issues with science, ESPECIALLY for the sake of the one gameplay loop that has the least roleplay and inherently disconnects players from interacting with others on other vessels. This is a roleplaying game, after all.

• Ship speeds were limited (for good reason), which effectively eliminated the demand for engine upgrades (especially as the NFSD can just bypass this with FUCs).

• Bluespace storage was nerfed, which reduced the demand for those.

• Advanced tools are readily available elsewhere and aren't enough of an upgrade that most people besides engineers and expeditioners will get all excited for them and buy them...except expedders/vgroiders don't need or want them because they know they will inevitably get a full set for free.

• Service tree? Who bothers with that? Maybe for the one person who on occasion wants to buy a jukebox.

• Many machines can be purchased on demand or found easily, bypassing science.

I think the desire to make expeditions profitable again is an honourable one, but I very strongly protest against it coming at the expense of scientists losing another of the very few research options they have an actual chance at successfully peddling.

[Tych0theSynth]

Also if just removing guns makes sci invalidated for selling goods our issue isn't the guns, our issue is that there is no good tech or worth research.

This has been a growing issues for a long ass time, sadly.

[BluCottonCandy]

So if I am understanding this correctly.
This will make the Merc fab useless except for ammo now?

How exactly will this cure the issue of people selling their guns to NFSD?
They will simply sell their guns to NFSD, and use those to get better guns from NFSD since that's the best they can get.

A lot of people prefer to be legal, and unless the weapon is actually better, they aren't going to choose it over a NFSD sanctioned gun runne- sorry NFSD gun trade in.

None of the guns printable from science are really that strong.

This will only further push people to just sell to NFSD and NFSD will gladly trade a lectre or WT for the twenty class 2 guns that people turn in.

[neuPanda]

i see several flaws the 2 right off the top of my head

1. everything has been taken away from science up to this point. taking this leaves them with only scan artifacts for money. 0 reason to interact with others left

2. while yes, the value of guns found on expeds are increased in value, which doesn't makes sense as to how those guns are worth more than the same gun acquired threw other means you have also made it significantly more difficult to do expdes.

i am sure i can come up with more, but i doubt any concerns are actually being taken into consideration. instead i am just going to remind you that if you try to force people to have fun the way you demand it, they are going to say fuck you and find a different way just to spite you.

[tonotom1]

People used to only have access to mosins, .45 repeaters, argenti, laser pistols and double barrel shotties (Others? Forgot) from the Libertyvend with no mercfab in sight and it felt like there was more room for excitement when discovering weapon caches. Nowadays you can just grab a serviceable gun from the start of the round and never need an upgrade. Even with the removal of the mercfab's gun manufactury, the immediate acquirable power of starting firearms today is bonkers.

[BluCottonCandy]

People used to only have access to mosins, .45 repeaters, argenti, laser pistols and double barrel shotties (Others? Forgot) from the Libertyvend with no mercfab in sight and it felt like there was more room for excitement when discovering weapon caches. Nowadays you can just grab a serviceable gun from the start of the round and never need an upgrade. Even with the removal of the mercfab's gun manufactury, the immediate acquirable power of starting firearms today is bonkers.

Yes, due to the difficulty of missions and how strong enemy AI is.
We're no longer fighting a couple of Xeno anymore.

[tonotom1]

Yes, due to the difficulty of missions and how strong enemy AI is. We're no longer fighting a couple of Xeno anymore.

Xenos still exist and gun balance doesn't necessarily have to match the old balance. There's also argocytes and meat that were added to provide content variety for lower threats.

Surely there's an existence of a happy medium where you can feel like discarding the gun you start with in favor of using a gun you find rather than just lumping it into the FUC buyback pile?

[archemical]

Couple issues I foresee and my thoughts

NFSD will now puppy guard UIVs and the mercs at them even harder, something that they're infamous for and people often get upset at them for doing, despite it being one of the only combat-oriented and action packed moments you get as an officer. This is because mercs are no longer encouraged to do buybacks-- why bother with paperwork and taking an extra trip to NFSDO where you may be searched just to sell contra you can sell at cargo with the rest of your things? Mercs and nfsd (or mercs and anyone for that matter) have almost no reason to interact any more, unless they want to turn their illegal guns in for legal ones [we solved crime?]. We have only just finally gotten to a place where NFZs aren't being called on every UIV, and I'd like to keep it that way.

Science is struggling right now, this serves to worsen that.

Mercfab becomes glorified ammo fab

NFSD becomes even more of an NT-sanctioned gang. As aforementioned, this change will lead to NFSD becoming gunrunners for the sector. It already happens often enough, once their legal options are narrowed like this, the NFSD becomes the path of least resistance for those who want to abide by the law, and even some of those who don't.

Would it be possible/desirable to have firearms created in a lathe be 'registered' and less valuable (or no value) at cargo, while firearms found in expeditions, UIVs, vgroids, anywhere lootable etc are unregistered and higher value? Mercs aren't forced to turn in to make a profit and scientists can still print guns that aren't an infinite money hack.

Based on the wording from the PR, it sounds like the goal is to increase the value of expedition loot so mercs don't feel like they have to default to the NFSD buyback program to turn a profit. I think you may be better served adjusting the loot tables or adding unique item rewards for high difficulty expeditions. I figure that's probably more difficult and time-consuming but I think it would be a better solution that doesn't have such a strong effect on other gameplay loops.

[RustyRed64]

This would pretty much murder weapon shops.

[github-actions]

This pull request has conflicts, please resolve those before we can evaluate the pull request.

[BluCottonCandy]

I feel a good middle ground for this.
Why not allow us to still print Energy weapons, but normal weapons must be found?
This would not entirely kill the gun market, encourage people to still trade with science, break up the meta as energy guns are more common, and would make it so NFSD doesn't become the only possible way to get guns reliably, thus stops the NFSD gun running meta.