Tracking issue for std::default::default()

[ilya-bobyr]

The feature gate for the issue is #![feature(default_free_fn)].

Addition of a free default() function to the default module.

When constructing a value using Default::default() the word "default" is repeated twice.

See #73001 for additional details, including alternative solutions.

Steps

• Implement the RFC: Free default() forwarding to Default::default() #73001
• Adjust documentation (see instructions on rustc-dev-guide)
• Stabilization PR (see instructions on rustc-dev-guide)
• Update examples in the documentation that currently use Default::default() to use default() where it makes sense.

Unresolved Questions

• Should the language allow direct import of trait methods, this feature becomes redundant. This addition is likely to be stabilized only when we decide that direct import of trait methods is will not be supported.

Implementation history

[ilya-bobyr]

@rustbot modify labels to +F-default_free_fn

[bluss]

You call out Default::default() in the description here - but why aren't T::default() or <$any_type>::default() good alternatives? They work today, if the Default trait is in scope, and it is in the prelude.

[ilya-bobyr]

T::default() is convenient when the compiler can not infer the type. But when it can, T because redundant. Here is a discussion where this was mentioned as well: #73001

[RalfJung]

FWIW I think it is often still good style to say T::default() to communicate to the human reader the type being constructed away, which can be declared very far away in the code (even in a different file).

[ilya-bobyr]

FWIW I think it is often still good style to say T::default() to communicate to the human reader the type being constructed away, which can be declared very far away in the code (even in a different file).

I do no think this change takes away that and in certain cases you have to say T::default(). The change allows you to say default() in cases where you are currently saying Default::default().

[birkenfeld]

You call out Default::default() in the description here - but why aren't T::default() or <$any_type>::default() good alternatives? They work today, if the Default trait is in scope, and it is in the prelude.

Default::default() happens a lot in struct displays, with StructType { ..., StructType::default() } being as redundant as StructType { ..., Default::default() }.

[bestouff]

A bit late to the party, but why not just a use Default::default() in the prelude instead ?
That's less code to inline for the optimizer.

[ilya-bobyr]

A bit late to the party, but why not just a use Default::default() in the prelude instead ?
That's less code to inline for the optimizer.

I am not sure I understand exactly what are you suggesting. But if the motivation described in the issues summary is not enough, please, read the discussion in #73001

[robinmoussu]

Is there a reason why this new free function isn't added in the prelude when the feature default_free_fn is used?

[jhpratt]

@robinmoussu Any additions to the prelude need to go through their own RFC. The bar is quite high, to say the least.

[quebin31]

What's the status of this feature? I've found that The Book should be updated (Appendix C - Derivable Traits) but not really sure how to proceed.

[BurntSushi]

One thing that I think is worth calling out is that this is putting a free default function inside the std::default module. So in order to avoid the stutter complaint of using Default::default(), it sounds like you'd have to add a use std::default::default; somewhere in order to use default. So that stutter is still there in some sense and you have to write an import for it. Granted, this gets rid of the stutter at the call site.

I also want to bring up the T::default() alternative. In particular, while it of course is not a replacement to avoid the stutter in all cases, I do think it is generally better to use T::default() in lieu of either a free default function or Default::default. So to me, this on its own reduces the incidence of having to write a stuttering Default::default call, and thus also reduces the importance of adding things to std that allow one to avoid the stutter.

As a more general point, to be honest, I'm not a huge fan of dumping aliases to things into std. I think it invites questions like, "Wait, what's the difference between the free default function and Default::default?" And it kind of just becomes another thing that folks need to learn, and another thing where some code will undoubtedly be using Default::default and other code will just be using the free function, which are expressed as two different things in std's API.

More generally, do we have other aliases like this in std already? I know we have things like std::u64::MAX and u64::MAX, but we've deprecated the former. I wonder if it makes more sense to talk about "let's add aliases to std" as a more general policy question.

In #73001, @dtolnay wrote:

When there are a lot (sometimes 100+) of these in a file it's reasonable to want to import Default::default, and the suggestions of ZWriteData { key, ..ZWriteData::default() } or ZWriteData { key, ..Default::default() } or ZWriteData { key, ..<_>::default() } are not better, whether due to repetition or an intimidating amount of punctuation.

To be honest, this seems infrequent enough where it might be reasonable to just define an internal helper function.

[bestouff]

Isn't the plan to have std::default::default in the prelude ?

[BurntSushi]

I'm not aware of that plan. Could you please link to it?

[bestouff]

You're right my bad. It was just a reminiscence of some random reddit post.

[joshtriplett]

We discussed this in today's @rust-lang/libs-api meeting. The general sentiment was:

• We'd like to make sure that default() can work even in const contexts. Ping @rust-lang/wg-const-eval; what's the status of being able to say, for a free function like default(), that it's const if and only if there's a const impl of Default? We'd like to know if that'd be possible, even if it's nightly-only. And if it is, we'd like to use that for default().
• Assuming that's possible, those of us in the meeting were generally in favor of having default(), and adding it to the prelude.

[oli-obk]

it's possible and already works (not yet in bootstrap libcore though): https://play.rust-lang.org/?version=nightly&mode=debug&edition=2018&gist=abd79539fa8900dd7f9e9d657f5f3e9a

But we are not yet confident in whether we can safely (in the stability sense) stabilize a function that uses this feature without also stabilizing something of that feature at the same time.

[jhpratt]

Are we working on the assumption that something like use core::default::Default::default; won't be available in the future? Or is it more that we're okay with the potential for a little duplication down the road?

[joshtriplett]

@jhpratt If one day it becomes possible to use a trait method, then I think we'd still want to export the free function default(), we'd just turn it into a pub use. So I don't see any reason we should wait for that.

@oli-obk That looks great. It'd be helpful to know if we could stabilize a function using const_fn_trait_bound and const_trait_impl without first stabilizing those two features themselves, but even if that's not the case, the confirmation that this can work is good enough for me to think we should stabilize this.

@rust-lang/libs-api I'm starting an FCP to get consensus on providing the free function default(), and exporting it from the prelude. (This consensus does not mean we have to stabilize it immediately; we can work with const-eval to figure out if it's possible to export something based on const_fn_trait_bound and const_trait_impl, or if we need to wait for those features. For now, I'd just like to confirm consensus for the general plan of providing the function and the prelude re-export.)

@rfcbot merge

[rfcbot]

Team member @joshtriplett has proposed to merge this. The next step is review by the rest of the tagged team members:

• @Amanieu
• @BurntSushi
• @dtolnay
• @joshtriplett
• @m-ou-se
• @yaahc

No concerns currently listed.

Once a majority of reviewers approve (and at most 2 approvals are outstanding), this will enter its final comment period. If you spot a major issue that hasn't been raised at any point in this process, please speak up!

See this document for info about what commands tagged team members can give me.

[jakoschiko]

There is one thing that I noticed:

When I initialize a struct Foo I often start with Foo { ..Foo::default() } and then jump to the definition of Foo::default (using rust-analyzer) to see what the defaults are and to decide which fields I want to change. That's possible with Foo::default() and Default::default(), but that's not possible with the free default function (e.g. the one from bevy, it just jumps to definition inside the bevy crate). That's very unfortunate because from a visual perspective I would prefer ..default().

[gilescope]

That’s ok, IDEs will get smarter. It’s not a reason to not do it.

…

On Fri, 23 Jun 2023 at 19:12, Jakob Schikowski ***@***.***> wrote: There is one thing that I noticed: When I initialize a struct Foo I often start with Foo { ..Foo::default() } and then jump to the definition of Foo::default (using rust-analyzer) to see what the defaults are and to decide which fields I want to change. That's possible with Foo::default() and Default::default(), but that's not possible with the free default function (e.g. the one from bevy, it just jumps to definition inside the bevy crate). That's very unfortunate because from a visual perspective I would prefer ..default(). — Reply to this email directly, view it on GitHub <#73014 (comment)>, or unsubscribe <https://github.com/notifications/unsubscribe-auth/AAGEJCCUR3TTMJ4M4S6HFEDXMXMAXANCNFSM4NTHZFEA> . You are receiving this because you commented.Message ID: ***@***.***>

[Amanieu]

We discussed this in the libs-api meeting today. We would prefer to see a language feature to import the Default::default method directly. The language team seems to be open to this, but someone needs to write up a language proposal and drive the design of this feature.

Since we are unlikely to stabilize the default function as-is, we would like to remove it from the standard library.

@rfcbot fcp close

[rfcbot]

Team member @Amanieu has proposed to close this. The next step is review by the rest of the tagged team members:

• @Amanieu
• @BurntSushi
• @dtolnay
• @joshtriplett
• @m-ou-se

No concerns currently listed.

Once a majority of reviewers approve (and at most 2 approvals are outstanding), this will enter its final comment period. If you spot a major issue that hasn't been raised at any point in this process, please speak up!

See this document for info about what commands tagged team members can give me.

[ilya-bobyr]

We discussed this in the libs-api meeting today. We would prefer to see a language feature to import the Default::default method directly. The language team seems to be open to this, but someone needs to write up a language proposal and drive the design of this feature.

Since we are unlikely to stabilize the default function as-is, we would like to remove it from the standard library.

I am not familiar with the removal process, but if it is just another issue with, essentially, a revert of the original change, I can do that.
Though, if someone happens to have a link to an example, I would appreciate it.

Was the consensus to remove it now, or after support for importing trait methods is added to the language?

If someone wants to mentor me in writing a language proposal, I could probably do that as well.
As I have not participated in the language processes in the past, it is not very likely I would manage it by myself.

[rfcbot]

🔔 This is now entering its final comment period, as per the review above. 🔔

[rfcbot]

The final comment period, with a disposition to close, as per the review above, is now complete.

As the automated representative of the governance process, I would like to thank the author for their work and everyone else who contributed.

[dscottboggs]

So, the feature has been removed in favor of a language change, but without actually formally proposing the language change? Disappointing.

[minghu6]

We discussed this in the libs-api meeting today. We would prefer to see a language feature to import the Default::default method directly. The language team seems to be open to this, but someone needs to write up a language proposal and drive the design of this feature.

Since we are unlikely to stabilize the default function as-is, we would like to remove it from the standard library.

@rfcbot fcp close

TL;DR

[DanieliusDev]

maybe we can have a language feature (alias) specifically for when creating structs with StructName {} to support .. which expands to ..Default::default.

Example:

MyStruct {
  a: 1,
  b: 2,
  ..,
}

This makes sense because the language already has this syntax is places such as pattern matching

[LunarLambda]

has there been any followup RFC/tracking issue for an eventual use Trait::method; syntax?

[crumblingstatue]

has there been any followup RFC/tracking issue for an eventual use Trait::method; syntax?

For what it's worth, rust-lang/rfcs#1995 is an open issue on this, maybe we could have some discussion there to move things forward.